god v aliens

[willow27]

do aliens exist, cause it occurred to me the other day that if they do then that totally rules out the theory of god because in the bible it says that there are no other planets in the universe or any other galaxy that have life on so if there is aliens then were all screwed cause theres no heaven either

[MargeB]

People regularly do things when there is no perceived gain to explain it. While definitely not wanting to start a different debate, a good example is Nazi Germany. You think all these people were evil? They very much backed an evil regime, but their actions came not from evil, nor from perceived gain, but from the Informational and Normative power of what others are doing around you. If everyone around you says it is right, it is RIGHT (no matter what your own eyes show (Asch 1955), and this has been widely proven). Thus, there are clear, non-divine reasons to explain why so many would have jumped on the early christian bandwagon, just as many jumped on the Islamic, Buddhist, Sikh, Hindu, New Age, Zoroastrian bandwagons. And that of hundreds of other 'Messiahs'. So I don't recommend 'millions of Christians can't be wrong argument'.

[jake-the-peg]

I think Willow you have to remember that the Bible didn't appear in a flash of light.

It's an amalgam of ancient Jewish writings and early Christian documents that have been edited many times. Some stuff was thrown out and became the "apocrapha". It has been translated by many people and interpreted by even more.

There are people who believe in it's literal truth but it's a hard position to maintain logically and you don't need aliens to find holes in it.

[MargeB]

willow, they probably originated like this (based on information we have from a small blue planet with intelligent life on it):

planets form around one of the billions of billions of billions of stars in the universe. The planet in question (planet X) is a solid, is far enough from its sun to be under roasting temperatures, but close enough not to be freezing. (Non-solar system planets have been found, so I won't labour that point). At some point in its history it gets hit by a large object containing ice. This then distributes over the planets surface. Non living matter on the planet then interacts with itself to produce 'replicant chains', ie something that can 'reproduce' copies of itself. Over millions of years, this gives rise to single celled organisms, all of which are competing for survival. This competition gives rise to more and more complex forms of life, until eventually you get one group which occupies a niche based on intelligence, not braun. This species then develops a culture, then a technologically advanced civilization, and then hopefully radio astronomy, so they can start saying hello to us.

Something like this will have occurred thousands of times already in our own galaxy.

[mfewell]

Keeps meandering a bit off thread, but actually I cannot see an incompatibility between other intelligent life out there and (a single) god. Back to the original question, willow can you point out where the bible says there are no other planets in the universe etc, and bear in mind the bible was never intended to be a scientific reference anyway, e.g. Genesis which is fantasy (and in my view entirely irrelevant to a personal belief system - as are diversions like a virgin birth, transubstantiation, the Trinity)

[Ward-Minter]

How about looking at the lyrics to David Bowie's "Loving the Alien"??

There may be something in it for you willow. I think it is about religion being alien to the masses????

[georgit79]

I've had a really good science lesson reading this thread- thanks all! Great thread, by the way. And I'm not even going to attempt to add anything intelligent to it, because I'd fail miserably.

[Space]

Why do people take the bible seriously ?
The genesis is known to be pure fantasy, so why speculate on it ?

Just because lots of people believe in it, doesn't mean you should believe in it too. Remember that they only believe in it because they have been told to, and because they were surrounded by people who belived in it, who themselves believed for the same reasons ...

[mfewell]

Space, I believe in it (the bits that matter) because I have researched it as a thinking intelligent adult. This however is willow's thread. I am more than happy, nay delighted, to take up this whole area on another post. Threads like these tend to generate a lot of stormy but good-natured interest. The last thing anyone can call me is brainwashed into believing something just because I have been told to. I have researched at some depth to come to my beliefs. Why do people go 'funny' when the bible is mentioned, all on the scornful and offensive ?  Most of the very vocal opponents haven't delved its pages for years. I don't for one moment believe Jonah was swallowed by a whale, but I have another and much warmer interpretation.

 

Sorry willow, nicking your thread !

[MargeB]

Yeah, I love that. The bible is true, except the bits that are made up, and the bits that are true, are subject to my own interpretation, which can be in any shape or form you like.

ok, here's an example. I own a copy of Deliah Smith's summer cookbook. Suppose I start telling you that it's actually a guidebook for life and contains lots of mystical information. You would probably feel compelled to point out to me that I was way off track and that I should have my head examined.

Take issues like the death penalty, abortion, suicide. Everyone has an opinion on them, and I would never ever assume to tell someone that they were totally wrong on their perspective. But to say that the bible is anything more than a collection of (bad) stories, half truths, and myths, is to impute to it characteristics that it just does not have. I too have studied it in depth and it is a load of nonsense. We're not trying to be enemical: just trying to help you out. You are making a mistake by putting your faith in it.

[georgit79]

Hear hear. Or is it here here? I've never known that. Oh sorry, another completely pointless addition to the thread. Still reading with great interest, though.

Bible = highly overrated codswallop

[willow27]

i dont full heartedly put my faith in the bible i am open minded, it was just a thought that occurred to me and thought that id share it with others

[MargeB]

I guessed that willow, my post wasn't aimed at you.

[willow27]

i know marge i was just putting my piece in sorry

[mfewell]

Sorry willow, it was squarely aimed at me, MargeB and I have had a few run ins on this. I said 'matter' not 'made up'. So 2 of us have studied it in depth - but come to different conclusions. I don't think Jonah and the whale is factual, but I do think it is a beautiful symbol for the events of later on (resurrection), and that is all it is. I can only say that one day I was reading a bit of the NT when the fable of Jonah came to mind and something clicked. I also have my own insight (was going to say interpretation but it gets people mad!) as to the meaning of 'My God why have you forsaken me?". It won't strike a chord with most other people, but it does to me, and that is where belief becomes sustaining. MargeB I invited you once before to substantiate claims that the bible had been proven false (e.g. Scientific American). Have you got those sources to hand now ? To just say it's a 'load of nonsense' isn't sufficient or scientific. (We ought really to move this to a new thread, or alternatively give up and go home for a drink and a quiet evening!)

Sorry again willow.

[Ward-Minter]

Just an afterthought. If Eve was made from Adams rib, what resulted from Cher's ribs she had taken out?

 

Answers on a postcard please.

[MargeB]

That's where the nose and cheekbones came from.

Pretty good looking lassie, artificial or not.

S.....

[stevie21]

Adam's alone in the Garden of Eden enjoying the sun. God tells him "Great news!! I can make a partner for you. She'll be beautiful, interesting, fun, sexy and interesting.
She'll share your interests, love you and be your best friend.
The only drawback is that to make her I need half of your left leg and a wee bit of your brain"

Adam : "Mmmm, I dunno God. What can I get for just a rib?"






Apologies the possibly the oldest joke in the entire world.

p.s. where exactly in the Bible does it say that there are no other planets or other life in the galaxy?

[MargeB]

quite liked that actually. Thought you were gonna tell us the one about the hole in the tree (which I like quite a lot) but hey, this is a family site...

[nanny ethel]

willow27 i think you have extremely valid question i am 94 years and i often wonder whether i will go to heaven or i there is somewhere i will go

[badams]

Back to the original question from willow27 - where exactly in the Bible does it say there are no other planets, or galaxies?  It certainly does not say it directly, and I cannot think of any verse that even implies it.

The idea of life elsewhere does not in any case contradict the Bible - the fact that the Bible does not record that God made lifeforms elsewhere in the universe does not exclude it from having happened.

If God created life here, why could he not have created even more intelligent lifeforms on the other side of the universe?

Is there alien life?  I'll deal with that in my next post...