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Here Is A Medical Story, I Am Looking For Its Context Or A Similar Real Story With Context. Thanks
16 Answers
I want to collect more information about
this story, such as the hospital etc.
There was a famous surgeon who was doing a surgery. His assistant is the first-time experiencer of this job, so this doctor wants to challenge his assistant by hiding one piece of the medical sponge. When the surgeon wanted to close up, the nurses rejected and cried they missed one piece of sponge. The surgeon held up the sponge high in the air and said this assistant is qualified.
I know the surgeon is Mr Fendi (or not), but I don't have other information. Can anyone please tell me more information about this true case study (or even give me a link to that piece of study). If anyone can give me another similar true story with contexts that will also be helpful.
this story, such as the hospital etc.
There was a famous surgeon who was doing a surgery. His assistant is the first-time experiencer of this job, so this doctor wants to challenge his assistant by hiding one piece of the medical sponge. When the surgeon wanted to close up, the nurses rejected and cried they missed one piece of sponge. The surgeon held up the sponge high in the air and said this assistant is qualified.
I know the surgeon is Mr Fendi (or not), but I don't have other information. Can anyone please tell me more information about this true case study (or even give me a link to that piece of study). If anyone can give me another similar true story with contexts that will also be helpful.
Answers
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You might like to read this (slightly old) commentary from a surgeon:
http://
Essentially, it is the responsibility of the nurses and technicians to count the sponges, clamps and so on. The surgeon is focussing on surgery. However, the surgeon is 'captain of the ship' so is responsible for errors made by the whole team.
The story sounds apocryphal to me, but I am not a surgeon, so don't really have any idea.
D
http://
Essentially, it is the responsibility of the nurses and technicians to count the sponges, clamps and so on. The surgeon is focussing on surgery. However, the surgeon is 'captain of the ship' so is responsible for errors made by the whole team.
The story sounds apocryphal to me, but I am not a surgeon, so don't really have any idea.
D
Yes as said it is the responsibility of the theatre nurse to count out and back in all the pieces of equipment used. The surgeon just does the operation.
For a surgeon new to a particular operation there is a procedure that is followed.
The surgeon watches an experienced surgeon do the operation, then next time he assists at a similar operation. Next the surgeon does the operation but with the experienced surgeon watching , if all has gone well the surgeon can then do that operation on their own.
For a surgeon new to a particular operation there is a procedure that is followed.
The surgeon watches an experienced surgeon do the operation, then next time he assists at a similar operation. Next the surgeon does the operation but with the experienced surgeon watching , if all has gone well the surgeon can then do that operation on their own.
Islay
"Yes as said it is the responsibility of the theatre nurse to count out and back in all the pieces of equipment used. The surgeon just does the operation. "
I agree with Eddie.....although if a squab or instrument is left in then it is the surgeon who is sued and not the scrub nurse.
"For a surgeon new to a particular operation there is a procedure that is followed.
The surgeon watches an experienced surgeon do the operation, then next time he assists at a similar operation. Next the surgeon does the operation but with the experienced surgeon watching , if all has gone well the surgeon can then do that operation on their own."
No, I disagree with Eddie on that point.....a trainee surgeon is only allowed to "fly solo" when he is deemed fit and capable, although, training programmes are poor in the UK compared to other countries e.g USA. In the UK the training of surgeons varies from hospital to hospital, from good training to very little supervised training at all.
Just my opinion based on half a century of surgical experience, although training of surgeons may have improved over the latter years.
"Yes as said it is the responsibility of the theatre nurse to count out and back in all the pieces of equipment used. The surgeon just does the operation. "
I agree with Eddie.....although if a squab or instrument is left in then it is the surgeon who is sued and not the scrub nurse.
"For a surgeon new to a particular operation there is a procedure that is followed.
The surgeon watches an experienced surgeon do the operation, then next time he assists at a similar operation. Next the surgeon does the operation but with the experienced surgeon watching , if all has gone well the surgeon can then do that operation on their own."
No, I disagree with Eddie on that point.....a trainee surgeon is only allowed to "fly solo" when he is deemed fit and capable, although, training programmes are poor in the UK compared to other countries e.g USA. In the UK the training of surgeons varies from hospital to hospital, from good training to very little supervised training at all.
Just my opinion based on half a century of surgical experience, although training of surgeons may have improved over the latter years.
I am Not getting Linked In to this, although Aaronz you may think it worthwhile. :-
https:/
Hans.
https:/
Hans.
// The story sounds apocryphal to me, but I am not a surgeon, so don't really have any idea. //
dear sqad - it is too long since you were in theatre
and how surgeons would love - 'he is only a technician' and anything else is someone else's fault!'
Luckily they have things called patients nowadays (not cases) and are in charge of the Whole Lot and not just the bit they have taken out (or put in). Talk about change - they hated it.
Oh! yes I can tell ze troot! - Birmingham General Hospital 1980!
I can say that because BGH is now the Children's Hospital and Mr X is dead.
Open the abdominal cavity - and the surgeon would conceal a small swab in his palm and wait for the end of the operation. smaller than a four by four and bigger than a dab
You have counts and checks - the junior must know the difference and they are counted throughout and at the end - they are checked!
More than one person does this and sister in charge - sorry scrub nurse ( how quickly one forgets) is involved.
Then she thay the magic words - The swabs have been checked mr X
or 'there is one swab missing on the count.'
( note: "there is a swab missing on the final check" is nonsense and never said. It can never be final if a swab in unaccounted for )
and Mr X says oh here it is !
and afterwards Sister in charge and scrub say - "we are the only ones who will work with him" - others find something else to do or ring in ill
No one writes this sort of thing in a report
there is no print version
Doctors mistakes ( well this isnt one) are so unthinkable that if you can think of it - it must have been done at some time. [ that is not too delphic is it?]
It is always someone else's mistake -
in the ebola GMC case where the junior doctor was NOT screwed for falsifying a temperature entry - they couldnt show she had written it. [But she got screwed over the phone call from Dr Gent - Dr Gent bleating to the GMC that he didnt wish to get involved or else no one would ever take a call from him again]. Too bad suspended a month.
and the consultant in charge of the ebola screening unit turned up to the GMC and swore under oath with a straight face he was not in charge (so the jnr must have been) except for pay day when he was. he wasnt a surgeon was he ? well sounds like it ....
The gallery at the GMC publicly wondered why the junior was getting it and not the people who were obviously responsible
hey time to end with a chrissie joke
surgeons often think a wet field is due to the anaesthetist
surgeon: anaesthetist - it is a bit wet over here - can you do something about the bleeding ?
Anaesthetist: OK Mr X - give me a a pair of gloves and a diathermy and I will see what I can do !
ter-daaah !
that is not too technical is it ?
Lost swab - you sue the surgeon and the Hospital ( vicarious liability for all the employees ) - but sqad you knew that really didnt you
[ note - lots of scope for vacant comments - GMC - wot dat den ?
and 'Birmingham where dat den?" - and
"four by four - dat piece of wood dat!" - wot he do wid dat ? hit the anaesthetist ? can't say it - gas man?]
well I dont know if the junior learnt the difference between a count and a check - I certainly did !
dear sqad - it is too long since you were in theatre
and how surgeons would love - 'he is only a technician' and anything else is someone else's fault!'
Luckily they have things called patients nowadays (not cases) and are in charge of the Whole Lot and not just the bit they have taken out (or put in). Talk about change - they hated it.
Oh! yes I can tell ze troot! - Birmingham General Hospital 1980!
I can say that because BGH is now the Children's Hospital and Mr X is dead.
Open the abdominal cavity - and the surgeon would conceal a small swab in his palm and wait for the end of the operation. smaller than a four by four and bigger than a dab
You have counts and checks - the junior must know the difference and they are counted throughout and at the end - they are checked!
More than one person does this and sister in charge - sorry scrub nurse ( how quickly one forgets) is involved.
Then she thay the magic words - The swabs have been checked mr X
or 'there is one swab missing on the count.'
( note: "there is a swab missing on the final check" is nonsense and never said. It can never be final if a swab in unaccounted for )
and Mr X says oh here it is !
and afterwards Sister in charge and scrub say - "we are the only ones who will work with him" - others find something else to do or ring in ill
No one writes this sort of thing in a report
there is no print version
Doctors mistakes ( well this isnt one) are so unthinkable that if you can think of it - it must have been done at some time. [ that is not too delphic is it?]
It is always someone else's mistake -
in the ebola GMC case where the junior doctor was NOT screwed for falsifying a temperature entry - they couldnt show she had written it. [But she got screwed over the phone call from Dr Gent - Dr Gent bleating to the GMC that he didnt wish to get involved or else no one would ever take a call from him again]. Too bad suspended a month.
and the consultant in charge of the ebola screening unit turned up to the GMC and swore under oath with a straight face he was not in charge (so the jnr must have been) except for pay day when he was. he wasnt a surgeon was he ? well sounds like it ....
The gallery at the GMC publicly wondered why the junior was getting it and not the people who were obviously responsible
hey time to end with a chrissie joke
surgeons often think a wet field is due to the anaesthetist
surgeon: anaesthetist - it is a bit wet over here - can you do something about the bleeding ?
Anaesthetist: OK Mr X - give me a a pair of gloves and a diathermy and I will see what I can do !
ter-daaah !
that is not too technical is it ?
Lost swab - you sue the surgeon and the Hospital ( vicarious liability for all the employees ) - but sqad you knew that really didnt you
[ note - lots of scope for vacant comments - GMC - wot dat den ?
and 'Birmingham where dat den?" - and
"four by four - dat piece of wood dat!" - wot he do wid dat ? hit the anaesthetist ? can't say it - gas man?]
well I dont know if the junior learnt the difference between a count and a check - I certainly did !
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