Crop Circles

[naomi24]

Following wendilla's question about the latest ufo sightings, many new and intricate crop circles have appeared recently. Is there a connection, and if not, how can we explain them?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/how aboutthat/2144652/Most-complex-crop-circle-eve r-discovered-in-British-fields.html

http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/photos/2008/jun.s html

[naomi24]

Pixi, that's precisely my point.

Squarebear As crop circles stopped appearing after these guys came forward I would assume that 100% are man made.

No, you're not talking to yourself, but nevertheless I'm not with you. These guys, as you put it, came forward quite some time ago, but the crop circles we're talking about have appeared within the past few days, so crop circles have most definitely not stopped appearing.

And '80% defnitely man-made and 20% probably'man-made? Not exactly definitive, is it? So where do we go if the 'probably' isn't correct?

By the way, this is only a frendly discussion, so there's no need to shout. Some of us might be a bit deaf, but we aren't blind, and I imagine most here understand plain English - even if we don't all agree with what's being said..

Wiz, I'm not saying that aliens are tryng to contact us. I'm simply perplexed by this. However, if aliens were trying to tell us they were around, bearing in mind the nature of man, they'd be pretty foolhardy to land their craft and say 'Take me to your leader' - so what better way to convey the message than by the use of mathematics - the universal language.

[mcraig]

i believe that crop cricles are real. yes, i agree that a lot of them are man made, but you're right. there are some that are waaaay too complicated and waaaayyy too huge to have been created overnight by humans.

and to answer your question - yes, i think there probably is a connection between the ufo sightings and the circles (if the circles are NOT the ones created by man). I think it may be other alien life forms trying to contact the human race - i definitely think that's possible.

[aka pixi]

ahh I meant to say that crop circles havent stopped appearing naomi but I forgot. I have also read that crop circles were documented around 200 years ago....if this is true, they were definitely not made by these guys lol

[WaldoMcFroog]

Poor ol' aliens - there they are, advanced enough to have developed the technology to fly across the universe, desperate to make contact with us and share their great knowledge, but sadly unable to grasp the rudiments of Earth languages and thus restricted to try to communicate during the summer months when the wheat is tall enough.

[naomi24]

If aliens are buzzing around this planet, I wouldn't say they're trying to contact us, rather that they are leaving signs to tell us they are here. If they are technologically advanced enough to get here, then it is likely that they would be quite capable of communicating with us if they thought it wise to do so. However, bearing in mind what would happen if they did make direct contact, they probably have more sense than to chance it!

[naomi24]

My answer was to mcraig, but it answers your post too, Waldo.

Pixi, yes I've read that too - so it definitely wasn't them!

[squarebear]

The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that it has never tried to contact humans.

[chakka35]

OK,naomi, let's asssume that these latest examples actually appeared overnight.
So the method now should be to experiment to see how they could have been made overnight, since that is now accepted.
Why, from that purely practical problem, people have to make the huge jump to alien origins is beyond me.

Unless, of course, you happen to know how aliens could have produced them overnight while mankind can't.

As with the UFO business below, there is too much eagerness to leap to romantic and highly unlikely solutions before the likely ones are anything like exhausted.
I was about to quote Occam's Razor but then remembered, naomi, that you reject that very rational idea!

[naomi24]

Ah, like mine, your memory never fails you ,Chakka, but I'm sorry to hear you're still happy to accept half measures.

The notion that crop circles could be created by something other than earthlings (and note I don't say human beings, because for all I know, if aliens exist, they may well be human beings) is not so much a romantic idea, but simply a consideration. I don't know who or what creates crop circles, or how they're created, but as I've told you many times before, I think it's incredibly arrogant to loftily declare that something is or isn't so, unless you have solid evidence to support your claim. Yet again, I repeat, if we don't know, we can only say we don't know, and allow ourselves to be open minded enough to consider all possibilities - even though we feel they are unlikely. (Yes, I know - if we're really open minded, our brains fall out - but hopefully I've a long way to go before that happens!).

[chakka35]

We agree on the principle,naomi, which is that we should consider all possibilities. But it is reasonable to consider the most reasonable, the most sensible, the most rational possibilities first - and exhaust them -before reaching out for the more exotic ones.
The most reasonable (etc) is that these circles were produced by human beings on this planet. Until that possibility is completely exhausted (which, of course, it has not been anywhere near yet) there is no reason to suppose that they were created by fairies or creatures from space.
This subject, like that of UFOs, has been tainted from the start by ideas which we do not even need to consider yet.

[naomi24]

Oh no Chakka. That would be like the police pursuing only one avenue of investigation to solve a crime. Like them, we need to consider all suspects, systematically eliminating them from our enquiries until the only one left standing is the culprit.

[tiggerblue10]

I don't believe that these crop circle are alien related. More likely to be Banksy style artists of the farming world. There are some very artistically talented people out there.

I do, however, believe that Earth is not the only planet in the universe with living beings. Whether contact with Earth has been made I have no idea, but I would like to believe that we are not alone.

[aka pixi]

Waldo I believe that aliens no matter how advanced they are may be around and not make direct contact with us (though who's to say they havent already made direct contact with someone)

I think that if intelligent life was discovered by one of earths probes or whatever they are called then the first thing to happen would be to watch that intelligent life, either with more probes or manned spacecraft. I think it would be just the situation I believe is happening here and now. The intelligent life would see the craft now and again but be unable to do anything or maybe even unable to believe what they have seen. I think the powers that be would watch for a long long time, I mean there must be loads to suss out and investigate, not just the intelligent life but other if any life on the planet. I believe they would want to know as much as possible if not everything about their lifestyles, their ruling bodies, their technology and most of all their weapons before sending out an 'howdy, how you doing' message.



I was thinking earlier, as the circles have apparently been recorded since the 1700's then would anyone in those days really risk doing it? They burned people as witches in those days I think and Im sure that something so strange as crop circles (what even centuries later we still dont understand) would have been seen as the devils work. Would anyone really prat about in the fields with a risk of being put to death if they were caught?

[naomi24]

Pixi, I believe that people from other planets first came here thousands of years ago and that this is where the tales of gods, including the biblical god, originated. I don't think people invented these gods - I think they were real enough - but they weren't gods. They were simply people/beings who possessed a standard of technology unknown on the earth at that time - and unknown even now. The people of the day had no notion of manned flight, electricity, radio, etc, and didn't understand what they were seeing, and so endowed those who came from the sky (and most of the 'gods' did come from the sky) with supernatural status, and recorded what they saw in the best way they could. I could elaborate further, but I won't just now. Most of my esteemed colleagues in R&S, like Waldo and Chakka, disagree with me, but I remain convinced that this is what happened in the dim and distant past. I've posted this link a couple of times before, but you may like to have a look at it. I'd be interested in your thoughts.

http://www.crystalinks.com/ufohistory.html

[aka pixi]

I've thought along those lines many time naomi. Thanks for the link, I'm about to have my tea but will take a look at it afterwards:)

[bobclean]

Hi Naomi, it seems to me, looking at your posts, that you are not at all open-minded, but are trying to find evidence to back up your firmly held belief (with no real evidence) that early humans were visited by aliens. Maybe you should have posted in Body & Soul, but as you have posted in Science, don't be surprised if scorn is poured on your woo-woo ideas. I hope I don't sound harsh, if I do, then I apologise in advance.

[aka pixi]

Thanks for the link naomi, I took a quick look and theres lots I have seen before but also lots I have never seen. Im having a proper look now and so far its really interesting :)

Like you I have always believed that aliens have had contact with humans in the past. I think definitely the ancient egyptians and aztecs were among them and I think they did see them as gods.

Im gonna check out the rest of the link, thanks again :)

[naomi24]

Thanks for your thoughts, bobclean, but it seems to me that by at least considering the alternatives, I'm rather more open minded that those who dismiss possible explanations simply because they deem anything other than mainstream opinion to be impossible - or even - what was it? Ah, yes. Woo-woo. Scorn all you like, if that's what you need to do in order to feel superior, but to my mind anyone who is arrogant enough to declare he knows the answers, when in fact nobody does, is incredibly short-sighted - and that's caused by putting the blinkers on, and keeping them on. 'I haven't investigated it, but I don't think it's possible, so therefore it isn't.'' Not exactly a scientific way of looking at things is it?

And incidentally, although there's nothing remotely spiritual in my theories on the origins of the gods, and I am not religious in any sense, my research over many years has meant that I have acquired an enormous interest in religion, and therefore my long-time home on AB is R&S, not B&S.

[bobclean]

Naomi, I am not trying to feel 'superior', as you put it. You have been given the explanation for crop circles, but you refuse to accept the obvious, down-to-earth answers. You are looking for fantastic answers to something easily explainable.If you decide that there are alien, ghost or fairy forces at work, then that is up tp you. I could just as easily say that crop circles are caused by pink unicorns, and more research needs to be done into this. Anybody who says they are not is close-minded. Why are you jumping to illogical conclusions? If you want to believe that aliens visited the early earth, then post in body & soul, or write a sci-fi story, don't post in science.