News8 mins ago
Vitamins & Suppliments
28 Answers
Hello Science!
Long time, no see... :c)
I've been doing a whole health regime thing lately.... Eating better, lots of exercise etc... And I've been taking certain vitamins for this. I generally take cod liver oil capsuals (so I don't ache after gym), milk thistle (told it was good for keeping your liver and kidneys in good order), multi-vitamins, gingsing (stop me getting colds), zinc (also for colds), a 'diet' tablet (boots own, natural remedy that I think aids digestion, supposed to take it after every meal) and one multi-vitamin for girls, (something to do with skin, hair and nails). I'm thinking of also adding some iron capsuals in to the mix as I rarely cook red meat.
Yesterday, I was writing down the ones I'm running low on and my collegue says they're a supreme waste of money. I've felt better using them but it's not like I've never heard of the placebo effect! I was wondering what the science take on it all was? Is there any point in me continueing with the vits?
Cheers all!
China
Long time, no see... :c)
I've been doing a whole health regime thing lately.... Eating better, lots of exercise etc... And I've been taking certain vitamins for this. I generally take cod liver oil capsuals (so I don't ache after gym), milk thistle (told it was good for keeping your liver and kidneys in good order), multi-vitamins, gingsing (stop me getting colds), zinc (also for colds), a 'diet' tablet (boots own, natural remedy that I think aids digestion, supposed to take it after every meal) and one multi-vitamin for girls, (something to do with skin, hair and nails). I'm thinking of also adding some iron capsuals in to the mix as I rarely cook red meat.
Yesterday, I was writing down the ones I'm running low on and my collegue says they're a supreme waste of money. I've felt better using them but it's not like I've never heard of the placebo effect! I was wondering what the science take on it all was? Is there any point in me continueing with the vits?
Cheers all!
China
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I think it's pretty complicated with differing views but the consensus seems to be that if you have not partiicular health issues and that you're not pregnant, older etc. then you will get all the vitamins you need from a good diet that contains fruit and vegtables.
Part of the vitamin thing is a hang over from the Double Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling - who suddenly decided his work in chemistry made him an expert in human medecine and started pronouncing on vitamin C as a cure for colds.
If you've ever wondered where that came from thank Linus
Have a read here - http://www.quackwatch...edTopics/pauling.html it's quite a story
I suspect not aching at the Gymn is probably more to do with getting stronger (although do they have one of those shaking vibration plates? - they're great after)
I doubt they're doing you any harm but you may well be excreting 90% of what you're paying for
Part of the vitamin thing is a hang over from the Double Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling - who suddenly decided his work in chemistry made him an expert in human medecine and started pronouncing on vitamin C as a cure for colds.
If you've ever wondered where that came from thank Linus
Have a read here - http://www.quackwatch...edTopics/pauling.html it's quite a story
I suspect not aching at the Gymn is probably more to do with getting stronger (although do they have one of those shaking vibration plates? - they're great after)
I doubt they're doing you any harm but you may well be excreting 90% of what you're paying for
I agree with above. If vitamins are water soluble, like Vit C, then you will just wee out what you don't need. However, fat soluble ones like Vit A, can be overdosed on, although you'll still probably get rid of most of what you don't need.
Do you really need two multivitamins? Don't they do the same thing? ALso check the ingredients as they normally contain iron. Also usually contain zinc, so an extra one might not be necessary. Or buy a multivitamin that covers all of the above, check the ingredients list.
Also if you are eating better can you not get the vitamins from your food? You could cut it down to Cod Liver Oil, Milk Thistle, Ginseng and a good quality multi-vitamin, at least that would save you money. You could then reduce them and see if you feel worse (or better?).
Do you really need two multivitamins? Don't they do the same thing? ALso check the ingredients as they normally contain iron. Also usually contain zinc, so an extra one might not be necessary. Or buy a multivitamin that covers all of the above, check the ingredients list.
Also if you are eating better can you not get the vitamins from your food? You could cut it down to Cod Liver Oil, Milk Thistle, Ginseng and a good quality multi-vitamin, at least that would save you money. You could then reduce them and see if you feel worse (or better?).
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articles abstracts from Pub med, you'll be able to access the full article of some of them (or all if you're in a uni or similar place with access)
(Pub med is scientific journal article database, though that does not necessarily mean good science!)
Ginseng
http://www.ncbi.nlm.n...Panel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.n...2540305?log$=activity (I think this use is because it improves blood flow, as it is often described as a memory aid too)
Echinacea
http://www.ncbi.nlm.n...iews&logdbfrom=pubmed
Vitamin C
http://www.ncbi.nlm.n...Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus
Cod Liver Oil
http://springerlink.m...f9ede067785cf1fabπ=4
----------------
articles abstracts from Pub med, you'll be able to access the full article of some of them (or all if you're in a uni or similar place with access)
(Pub med is scientific journal article database, though that does not necessarily mean good science!)
Ginseng
http://www.ncbi.nlm.n...Panel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.n...2540305?log$=activity (I think this use is because it improves blood flow, as it is often described as a memory aid too)
Echinacea
http://www.ncbi.nlm.n...iews&logdbfrom=pubmed
Vitamin C
http://www.ncbi.nlm.n...Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus
Cod Liver Oil
http://springerlink.m...f9ede067785cf1fabπ=4
Hi china...being on the skinny side I've often asked about supplements & have always been told not to waste my money & that your diet has to be exceptionally poor before you actually become vitamin deficient. However, it was once suggested that because I no longer eat red meat I should take a vitamin B complex.
Blimey... I'll have a shifty through all those links later this evening, thank alls! :c)
I don't think my diet is particularly great actually. I live alone and although I can cook, I frequently can't be bothered if it's just for myself. I tend to eat dried fruit, nuts and seeds for breakfast with some of that pro-biotic youghurt stuff, lunch is either pasta or pitta and homous and dinner has been soup (tomato and basil or pumpkin) and bread quite a lot recently. Although i also love fishcakes/any form of fish and salad leaves... Not exatly unhealthy but I guess not really healthy either. I did make a spiced lentil soup for the first time on Sunday which may be taking over lunch meals in the near future as it's lovely. That's not a good enough diet to get all my vits though is it really?
I don't think my diet is particularly great actually. I live alone and although I can cook, I frequently can't be bothered if it's just for myself. I tend to eat dried fruit, nuts and seeds for breakfast with some of that pro-biotic youghurt stuff, lunch is either pasta or pitta and homous and dinner has been soup (tomato and basil or pumpkin) and bread quite a lot recently. Although i also love fishcakes/any form of fish and salad leaves... Not exatly unhealthy but I guess not really healthy either. I did make a spiced lentil soup for the first time on Sunday which may be taking over lunch meals in the near future as it's lovely. That's not a good enough diet to get all my vits though is it really?
articles basically say no beneficial evidence for healthy adults,apart from the cod liver oil (and Korean Ginseng good for erectile dysfunction).
Your diet it pretty good. Fruit, nuts and seeds, yoghurt, vegetables and carbohydrates, pretty good start. Making your own soup is really easy (I have just started). I got a hand blender for £15 off AMazon, you just then need to boil veg a bit, add an onion,garlic, spices, or whatever takes your fancy and some stock if necessary. Then blitz away. Quick and nutricious. Also good way to sneak in veg you don't particularly like, but can hide them. For instance I think spinach is boring and gritty, but you can drop a handful in to the soup and blend it and you have the nutrition without the yuckiness. Also frozen and canned veg is very nutritious, cheaper and easier to store. I'm not advocating not buying any fresh, but pointless if it doesn't get eaten.
Houmous also easy to make and nutritious protein wise, home made means you can control unnecessary fat. Could add some raw veg to houmous and pitta. Make past whole grain for added nutrition and keeps you fuller longer. For bought soup and bread, check the salt levels, as often they have far higher than you would expect (or want!).
Might want to consider some dark green veg as an addition to your good work and check you're getting a good source of protein.
Keep up the good work :o)
Your diet it pretty good. Fruit, nuts and seeds, yoghurt, vegetables and carbohydrates, pretty good start. Making your own soup is really easy (I have just started). I got a hand blender for £15 off AMazon, you just then need to boil veg a bit, add an onion,garlic, spices, or whatever takes your fancy and some stock if necessary. Then blitz away. Quick and nutricious. Also good way to sneak in veg you don't particularly like, but can hide them. For instance I think spinach is boring and gritty, but you can drop a handful in to the soup and blend it and you have the nutrition without the yuckiness. Also frozen and canned veg is very nutritious, cheaper and easier to store. I'm not advocating not buying any fresh, but pointless if it doesn't get eaten.
Houmous also easy to make and nutritious protein wise, home made means you can control unnecessary fat. Could add some raw veg to houmous and pitta. Make past whole grain for added nutrition and keeps you fuller longer. For bought soup and bread, check the salt levels, as often they have far higher than you would expect (or want!).
Might want to consider some dark green veg as an addition to your good work and check you're getting a good source of protein.
Keep up the good work :o)
Hi China - it's nice to hear from you again.
In general, I agree with the comments above. True vitamin deficiency is virtually unknown nowadays in the western world and all those supplements you're taking are a waste of money. The only possible exception of Omega 3 oils as mentioned by Sqad. There are many studies being undertaken right now involving Omega 3 oils and the news is encouraging.
Eating a good, balanced diet will give you the vitamins and minerals you need to keep you in good health and there is no conclusive evidence that ginseng and milk-thistle are of benefit to humans. Likewise, zinc remains very controversial as a cold preventative and the balance of probability is that it is valueless. Having said that, I do appreciate the placebo effect.
I would continue taking the cod liver oil capsules (be careful not to exceed the daily dose). However, I'm not against in principal adding in a daily dose of a good quality multivitamin/mineral with iron in order to make up for any shortage that might arise due to such things as a hectic lifestyle or secondary vitamin deficiency - this is where vitamin malabsorbtion occurs due to such things as alcohol, certain underlying diseases and prescribed medicines interfering with vitamin uptake. Besides, I would ask who can put up their hand and say that they eat a healthy, well-balanced diet seven days a week?
Substitute your feminine multivitamin for a good quality once daily multivitamin/mineral and you'll be fine. I'm told that biochemistry professors like me know a thing or two about vitamins.
In general, I agree with the comments above. True vitamin deficiency is virtually unknown nowadays in the western world and all those supplements you're taking are a waste of money. The only possible exception of Omega 3 oils as mentioned by Sqad. There are many studies being undertaken right now involving Omega 3 oils and the news is encouraging.
Eating a good, balanced diet will give you the vitamins and minerals you need to keep you in good health and there is no conclusive evidence that ginseng and milk-thistle are of benefit to humans. Likewise, zinc remains very controversial as a cold preventative and the balance of probability is that it is valueless. Having said that, I do appreciate the placebo effect.
I would continue taking the cod liver oil capsules (be careful not to exceed the daily dose). However, I'm not against in principal adding in a daily dose of a good quality multivitamin/mineral with iron in order to make up for any shortage that might arise due to such things as a hectic lifestyle or secondary vitamin deficiency - this is where vitamin malabsorbtion occurs due to such things as alcohol, certain underlying diseases and prescribed medicines interfering with vitamin uptake. Besides, I would ask who can put up their hand and say that they eat a healthy, well-balanced diet seven days a week?
Substitute your feminine multivitamin for a good quality once daily multivitamin/mineral and you'll be fine. I'm told that biochemistry professors like me know a thing or two about vitamins.
Hi Bazile
No you’re not the exception. You fall into the secondary deficiency category but without being familiar with your medical history, I’m not able to put my finger on the cause. All the same you may find it beneficial if I discuss Vitamin D in a little detail to see if it rings any bells with you.
There are at least six different forms of vitamin D, each of which has been given the number D2 to D7. I’ll confine myself here to talking about D3 which is also known as cholecalciferol which is typical therapeutic form of vitamin D in humans.
First of all vitamin D3 is not strictly a vitamin as it can be synthesised in the skin of animals. What happens is that a substance the body uses in the manufacture of cholesterol reacts upon exposure to ultraviolet light from sunshine to form a substance called previtamin ( or provitamin) D. This in turn is transformed within around six hours to vitamin D3 itself, which is then taken into the bloodstream from the skin. The amount of vitamin D3 in the circulation is highest during the summer and lowest in the winter.
(continued)
No you’re not the exception. You fall into the secondary deficiency category but without being familiar with your medical history, I’m not able to put my finger on the cause. All the same you may find it beneficial if I discuss Vitamin D in a little detail to see if it rings any bells with you.
There are at least six different forms of vitamin D, each of which has been given the number D2 to D7. I’ll confine myself here to talking about D3 which is also known as cholecalciferol which is typical therapeutic form of vitamin D in humans.
First of all vitamin D3 is not strictly a vitamin as it can be synthesised in the skin of animals. What happens is that a substance the body uses in the manufacture of cholesterol reacts upon exposure to ultraviolet light from sunshine to form a substance called previtamin ( or provitamin) D. This in turn is transformed within around six hours to vitamin D3 itself, which is then taken into the bloodstream from the skin. The amount of vitamin D3 in the circulation is highest during the summer and lowest in the winter.
(continued)
Vitamin D3 deficiency is uncommon in normal adults. However, when it does occur, it can be serious particularly in pregnant women. Some vitamin D3 deficiency can occur because of a large reduction of fat intake, which decreases D3 absorption. Strict vegetarians also risk reduced vitamin D3 intake. Premature infants and elderly people who are exposed to minimal sunlight and consume little vitamin D3 also have a reduced capacity to metabolize D3 and can develop vitamin D3 deficiency. Conventional window glass impairs vitamin D production in the body. Dark skinned races also tend to have decreased D3 levels.
People who experience the exclusion of sunlight by living at latitudes above 40 degrees north or south in winter, those whose cultural clothing limits exposure of the skin to sunlight, as well as infants and children that are confined to bed or limited outdoor activity because of weather or illness, also can show a tendency towards vitamin D3 deficiency.
Clinical stresses which interfere with vitamin D3 metabolism, can result in calcium deficiency leading to osteomalacia and osteoporosis (the secondary vitamin D deficiency I mentioned). These stresses include: intestinal malabsorption (lack of bile salts); stomach bypass surgery; obstructive jaundice; alcoholism; liver or kidney failure decreasing hydroxylation of vitamin D3 to active forms; inborn errors of metabolism and other hereditary disorders.
(continued)
People who experience the exclusion of sunlight by living at latitudes above 40 degrees north or south in winter, those whose cultural clothing limits exposure of the skin to sunlight, as well as infants and children that are confined to bed or limited outdoor activity because of weather or illness, also can show a tendency towards vitamin D3 deficiency.
Clinical stresses which interfere with vitamin D3 metabolism, can result in calcium deficiency leading to osteomalacia and osteoporosis (the secondary vitamin D deficiency I mentioned). These stresses include: intestinal malabsorption (lack of bile salts); stomach bypass surgery; obstructive jaundice; alcoholism; liver or kidney failure decreasing hydroxylation of vitamin D3 to active forms; inborn errors of metabolism and other hereditary disorders.
(continued)
As far as symptoms of vitamin D3 are concerned, it usually takes the form of impaired mineralisation of bone caused by poor absorption of calcium which in turn leads to bone softening diseases such as rickets. Rickets is usually a childhood disease. In adults, Osteomalacia, a bone-thinning disease seen in women who have little exposure to sunlight and osteoporosis, which is a disease in which the density of bone mineral decreases leading to increased bone fragility, are the main risks. However, links have been made to many other diseases as well.
As far as treatment is concerned, the usual dose is about 20 micrograms (800 units) of cholecalciferol daily although this is increased to up to about 2.5 mg (100 000 units) of another form of vitamin D in some disease cases. Standard Calcichew tablets contain 1.25g of calcium carbonate with 5 micrograms (200 units) of cholecalciferol. A stronger version containing 400 units of cholecalciferol is also available. Other preparations are available too, but always follow the advice of your GP.
As far as treatment is concerned, the usual dose is about 20 micrograms (800 units) of cholecalciferol daily although this is increased to up to about 2.5 mg (100 000 units) of another form of vitamin D in some disease cases. Standard Calcichew tablets contain 1.25g of calcium carbonate with 5 micrograms (200 units) of cholecalciferol. A stronger version containing 400 units of cholecalciferol is also available. Other preparations are available too, but always follow the advice of your GP.
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Hi Sallisbannas, my daughter is 50 y.o. As I am writing this, she is in the hospital, where they are trying to dissolve a very large blood clot in a vein in her arm. They said the older it is, the harder it is. She will be in the hospital for 3-4 days while they are monitoring her. She was told if it is 1-2months old it should be lesser problem. She suspects is it one month old, since after a few days of the implanting she went to the doctor, only able to see a nurse practioneer who told her to go home and put heat on it. Which she did. But her arm got increasingly painful after 2-3weeks. Also, it would be worse, they said if it were an artery. Thats all the info she has now. I hope the long-term effects are zero to none. It is a miracale that it didn\\\'t break loose. She did go to a general pract. who only advised take some ibuproton. I guided her to a vein specialist who immediately did a ultrasound. Thank goodness for them. I appreciate all this disscussion. It takes my mind off of worrying about her for a moment.
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