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Has Earth been visited by aliens?
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Some people think it has and i wondered what evidence there was for this.
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Garmard and naomi, it isn't a question of 'not seeing this'; the concept is hardly a difficult one to understand! And it is not a question of denying man's natural instinct to explore, which might or might not be shared by aliens. We simply don't know.
My point was purely a statistical one based on the vastness of the universe. My analogy of the microbe on the grain of sand applies.
Of course, if we accept the idea that they know we are here then that can only be because they have received our meaningful electromagnetic radiations (unless you want to invent a form of telepathy as another conjecture).
That would narrow the field to just over 100 light-years away. So now we have to estimate how likely it is that alien life, though possibly common in the universe as a whole, would exist that near to us.
It's all conjecture. All one can be reasonably confident about - and that is also purely a statistical probability - is that life exists elsewhere. All the rest is just interesting speculation - not something that one can 'see' or 'fail to see'.
My point was purely a statistical one based on the vastness of the universe. My analogy of the microbe on the grain of sand applies.
Of course, if we accept the idea that they know we are here then that can only be because they have received our meaningful electromagnetic radiations (unless you want to invent a form of telepathy as another conjecture).
That would narrow the field to just over 100 light-years away. So now we have to estimate how likely it is that alien life, though possibly common in the universe as a whole, would exist that near to us.
It's all conjecture. All one can be reasonably confident about - and that is also purely a statistical probability - is that life exists elsewhere. All the rest is just interesting speculation - not something that one can 'see' or 'fail to see'.
chakka35, i do understand your implication but this is not your usual run-of-the-mill question that can be answered with statistics in mind or otherwise. If our planet is unique as it harbours intelligent life (so we conclude?) then the question is if some form of higher intelligence has detected our TV and radio transmissions they would be quite intrigued by us to a point and if they have overcome travelling from one star to another in a blink of an eye then they would visit.
I highly doubt that an intelligent species is going to come down here and start sharing its technology with us, that would be pretty futile to say the least bearing in mind that we are still at a war-like state and cannot be trusted one hundred percent.
Nevertheless i believe we are being spied on from time to time and i think it will be eons away before we are properly contacted.
I highly doubt that an intelligent species is going to come down here and start sharing its technology with us, that would be pretty futile to say the least bearing in mind that we are still at a war-like state and cannot be trusted one hundred percent.
Nevertheless i believe we are being spied on from time to time and i think it will be eons away before we are properly contacted.
Chakka, when I said I didn't know why people can't see it, I was really referring to those who deny the possibility that other civilisations could possibly reach us, or even exist.
I have to disagree with you when you say they would only know we're here because they have received our meaningful electro-magnetic radiations. We seek out life in the universe by examining the composition of the atmosphere, the temperature, and by looking for the presence of water, etc, etc. Within the past few years a planet has been discovered that science thinks is capable of supporting life. We can't send probes there, we haven't received signals from the surface, but by using other methods, we know it's possible. I've no doubt when we are capable of interstellar space travel, that's exactly the sort of place we'll head for.
http://www.dailyteleg...6frev00-1111113408408
I have to disagree with you when you say they would only know we're here because they have received our meaningful electro-magnetic radiations. We seek out life in the universe by examining the composition of the atmosphere, the temperature, and by looking for the presence of water, etc, etc. Within the past few years a planet has been discovered that science thinks is capable of supporting life. We can't send probes there, we haven't received signals from the surface, but by using other methods, we know it's possible. I've no doubt when we are capable of interstellar space travel, that's exactly the sort of place we'll head for.
http://www.dailyteleg...6frev00-1111113408408
OK, naomi, I see your point but, despite what Garmard says, it is most certainly a matters of statistics considering the size of the universe. I repeat that my sand analogy (not yet challenged) still stands.
Garmard, surely we are NOT (when we we get back our italics?) claiming that our planet is unique; that really would be arrogance. And you don't seem to get the point that our electromagnetic transmissions haven't got very far yet - a mere 100 light-years away in a universe that is thousands of millions of light-years across.
Anyway, while we are speculating, why don't we start imagining what these intelligent aliens look like? It's an aspect of all this that is never discussed. After all, if they are 10-foot long green jellies, or clusters of protoplasm, they might not, despite their intelligence, be physically capable of space travel. It's an idea that might not even have occurred to them. Too many of these discussions are based on the vague idea that they might be hominids, which is absurd.
Garmard, surely we are NOT (when we we get back our italics?) claiming that our planet is unique; that really would be arrogance. And you don't seem to get the point that our electromagnetic transmissions haven't got very far yet - a mere 100 light-years away in a universe that is thousands of millions of light-years across.
Anyway, while we are speculating, why don't we start imagining what these intelligent aliens look like? It's an aspect of all this that is never discussed. After all, if they are 10-foot long green jellies, or clusters of protoplasm, they might not, despite their intelligence, be physically capable of space travel. It's an idea that might not even have occurred to them. Too many of these discussions are based on the vague idea that they might be hominids, which is absurd.
I'll challenge your sand analogy, Chakka. Whilst I agree with you in that the universe contains multitudes of suns, planets, etc, you're assuming that anyone who is trying to make contact with us inhabits a planet in the farthest reaches of the universe when for all we know, we might discover, or they might have already discovered, that we're practically next door neighbours. That would cut the odds of finding other life dramatically.
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As for what they look like, well that could be pretty controversial in the case of the gods theory. According to the bible (and please stop wincing Chakka - I know you are, but have to say this to get my point across, so do please bear with me) - God made man (a race?) in his image. Bearing in mind I'm assuming the gods - and the bible speaks of more than one - were really people from another planet, this was undertaken by the usual biological process. They procreated and multiplied naturally. Then we turn the page and read on only to discover that he then found himself without servants here on earth, so he took some of the apes he found here, and with a bit of genetic engineering between them and himself, he made Adam (or several Adams) chemically (the dust of the ground) in a test tube, and then Eve, or several of them, from Adam's rib (DNA) and a bit more engineering. We know that apes and man have a common ancestor, but in evolutionary terms man appeared inexplicably rapidly, so if this theory is correct - and I'm not saying it is because I don't know - this could be the answer to man's abrupt appearance - and the answer to your question may be that they might look a little like us. An outrageous theory to some, no doubt, probably ridiculous to others, but if you think about it, it's by no means impossible for a highly advanced race to achieve. Our scientists are going that way right now. Of course, there could be other species out there that look and behave just like Alien - or worse. Who knows? ;o)
As for what they look like, well that could be pretty controversial in the case of the gods theory. According to the bible (and please stop wincing Chakka - I know you are, but have to say this to get my point across, so do please bear with me) - God made man (a race?) in his image. Bearing in mind I'm assuming the gods - and the bible speaks of more than one - were really people from another planet, this was undertaken by the usual biological process. They procreated and multiplied naturally. Then we turn the page and read on only to discover that he then found himself without servants here on earth, so he took some of the apes he found here, and with a bit of genetic engineering between them and himself, he made Adam (or several Adams) chemically (the dust of the ground) in a test tube, and then Eve, or several of them, from Adam's rib (DNA) and a bit more engineering. We know that apes and man have a common ancestor, but in evolutionary terms man appeared inexplicably rapidly, so if this theory is correct - and I'm not saying it is because I don't know - this could be the answer to man's abrupt appearance - and the answer to your question may be that they might look a little like us. An outrageous theory to some, no doubt, probably ridiculous to others, but if you think about it, it's by no means impossible for a highly advanced race to achieve. Our scientists are going that way right now. Of course, there could be other species out there that look and behave just like Alien - or worse. Who knows? ;o)
naomi, re your first point, we're talking probabilities here. It might well be that other intelligent life is less than 100 light-years away but it is statistically highly unlikely. I suppose, though, that I should allow a modicum of wishful thinking and not be so damned contrary.
I have difficulty in reconciling your account of man's origins with the known facts of evolution. I've never heard before the idea that man appeared inexplicably rapidly.
In Dawkins' beautifully illustrated The Ancestor's Tale he manages to trace mankind back through all the breathtaking maze of evolution until he arrives at microbes, but can go no further with our present knowledge. No room there for gods to shape man in their own image.
I have difficulty in reconciling your account of man's origins with the known facts of evolution. I've never heard before the idea that man appeared inexplicably rapidly.
In Dawkins' beautifully illustrated The Ancestor's Tale he manages to trace mankind back through all the breathtaking maze of evolution until he arrives at microbes, but can go no further with our present knowledge. No room there for gods to shape man in their own image.
Well, it might not be wishful thinking - who knows? - although you are contrary. :o)
I wouldn't argue the point, but I was always under impression that the step between the common ancestor and man came about somewhat rapidly in evolutionary terms. This article might interest you. It speaks of a newly identified gene and says 'Its sudden appearance relatively late in the history of the animal kingdom could have been the trigger for the evolution of humankind, although so far this is only a theory.'
http://news.bbc.co.uk.../sci/tech/2772241.stm
Fascinating stuff.
I wouldn't argue the point, but I was always under impression that the step between the common ancestor and man came about somewhat rapidly in evolutionary terms. This article might interest you. It speaks of a newly identified gene and says 'Its sudden appearance relatively late in the history of the animal kingdom could have been the trigger for the evolution of humankind, although so far this is only a theory.'
http://news.bbc.co.uk.../sci/tech/2772241.stm
Fascinating stuff.
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