Will sheltered children rebel?

[naomi24]

One of the panel members on Channel 5s 'The Wright Stuff' this morning was Shazia Mirza, a comedienne born in Birmingham of Pakistani Muslim parents. She said that as a child she was not allowed to invite school friends to her home, and was never allowed to go anywhere alone until she went to university aged 18. Once she got there, because of the restrictions that had been placed upon her throughout her childhood, with her newly found independence she ‘went wild’. Hence, she feels that children should be given more freedom to make their own decisions and taught to take more responsibility for themselves.

This week the courts are hearing the case of parents accused of killing a daughter who allegedly failed to conform to their wishes, so the question is will those Muslim children who are necessarily members of our liberal society but who are nevertheless raised under a strict regime at home eventually rebel against their sheltered upbringing - as Shazia Mirza did?

[boxtops]

No, not necessarily.

[237SJ]

Not necessarily. My best friend at junior school was brought up a J Witness and her life was like that . Neither her nor her siblings rebelled.

[keyplus90]

Majority of the children of people from Pakistan will not At least for two generations. Simple reason is that about 90% of the people from Pakistan here are from very remote villages. Most of them are un aware that even people back home have moved on. And they do not and will not give up what they believe in and what they do. After a couple of generations they may move on, but I still doubt it.

[naomi24]

The child of a JW doesn't face similar restrictions - the prospect of an arranged marriage, for example. It must be very difficult for children who mix with others in ordinary schools to accept that the freedom their friends enjoy can never be theirs - and I suspect that eventually the majority of those children will choose freedom over repression.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, //After a couple of generations they may move on, but I still doubt it. //

I think many of them are moving on now - and actually I'm rather pleased you used the phrase 'moving on' - because that's exactly what it is.

[joko]

i was at uni with a girl who did.
at first she was a muslim just as usual, but upon talking to others, having her beliefs challenged - by me and others - having things analysed and flagging up the hypocritical and the irrational stuff etc, she began to question her faith.
we never encouraged or goaded her to do things of course...we respected her beliefs and would ask her to explain...but mostly she couldnt really - she really was exteremly ignorant of 'why' things were the way they were - she just blindly believed - but she would see us out having a laugh and just wanted to do it too.

she eventually began to drink alcohol ...sometimes far too much and eventually she began to change her style - a bit gothy punk.

i left the college and i found out some time later that she had gone wild - and apparently was a bit of a nightmare to hang round with ...just being rude and weird - and basically not the rosina we had known and loved.

not sure what happened other than she was rebelling - (and had seemingly gone too far) - once she recognized that her strict upbringing was not right or the only way, she probably had all kinds of emotions - fear, anger, loss, a feeling of having wasted time, missed out, being sheltered etc

this was 20 years ago (we were 19-20) - i heard about 4 years ago that she was ok now and had not gone back to her religion...
i would like to know what happened at the time though.


actually i felt happy for her, yet guilty...

she had gone through a lifechanging event -because of us - and i was very happy that she was free of the 'shackles' and could move on and lead a normal life - but also guilty that she'd had to do it away from home - more or less alone - because although we were there for her as mates - we didnt really know her that well or really know or understand what she was going through and she hid it well ... though looking back there were a few weird things she did that at the time we just thought 'weird' - but was probably down to her state of mind.

[askyourgran]

In the eighties young muslim man came to work with us, he was Kenyan born, his parents were strict muslim. He found it very difficult to cope with the different cultures at work and at home. He had to put up with some racism too, and came to me for help. I did what I could while he was at work but of course I couldn't be around all the time. He was the youngest his older brother had married, then his father died. He was bereft without his father, he was expected to be the head of the household and care for his mother, but he just couldn't cope and committed suicide a few months later. It is such a burden for some young people to integrate into our society, on the one hand obeying their parents and also trying to fit into the everyday life of Britain. Hopefully the dyed in the wool Muslims who refuse to understand the difficulties they have brought on their children will eventually give way to a better education on integration. Shazia Mirza did the right thing although she has lost her parents for good. How many more young people make a stand and uncover the dreadful things that happen in the home. Will the mosques teach the lesson of compromise? I doubt it.

[joko]

one of my best friend is JW... she rebelled like mad and was ostracised form her family for a while.
she was beaten by her father for it too.
he brothers and sisters rebelled a little bit - sneaked around, got drunk etc, but not as much as her.

she is more accepted by them now, but hates the religion stuff - yet still feels guilty and weird about it...like she cant quite shake off all the stuff she learnt - she still believes in god.

[joko]

i would add, she too had mental health problems after a while - depression, mania etc

[hc4361]

Some kids with strict parents rebel, others don't.
Some kids with easy going parents push the boundaries too far, others don't.
Regardless or race, religion or faith.

[karenmac60]

I think that is a risk for any child brought up strictly. My parents were quite hard on me and I married young to someone who was also quite controlling. When we split I went totally over the top for a while, wanting to experience everything that had previously been denied to me. Everything in moderation seems a far better approach....

[sith123]

i for once do actually agree with you naomi, which is a suprise ;) I also agree with what keyplus has said. However remember that it is not only pakistani muslims who do this, but lots of people from various countries and religions.

[naomi24]

Sith, two (or more) wrongs don't make a right.

[keyplus90]

I meant moving on from their cultural, family and area related very confined thinking. I am sorry if I gave you some sort of wrong or misunderstood hope.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, that's either of change of mind or, if I understand you correctly, you're saying you didn't actually answer the question. In either case I suggest you tell Sith who, like me, agreed with your original post.

[mibn2cweus]

The breach of trust which comes with discovering you've been lied to in the horrible way that is religion has made it difficult for me to trust anyone, especially with regards to judgment. I remain terribly insecure about living in a world where we are so dependent of the rationality of others who view reason at best as an afterthought if not as our worst enemy. Choosing the path of reason is very much a lonely uphill journey all the way. But what other alternative is there that will not bring you to the end they prophesied for you?

[naomi24]

Mibs, //But what other alternative is there that will not bring you to the end they prophesied for you? //

Once you're grown, if you're wise, 'they' can only do to your intellect what you allow them to do to your intellect.

[keyplus90]

Don't worry about Sith. He knows what I really meant. But as for you "move on" has to be discarding their religion and belief. I am sure that is what will make you happy.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, //Don't worry about Sith. He knows what I really meant. //

Nonsense. The only reason he agreed with me was because he thought you were agreeing with me.

//But as for you "move on" has to be discarding their religion and belief. //

You can deny it, Keyplus, but it's happening - and it's no surprise. You can't expose your children to freedom and expect them to accept repression. Hate to say I told you so - but I will.

[joko]

i used to know a born again christian .. she had been a bit of a goth.

i hadnt seen her in a while and then i bumped into her and her friend and went for a cuppa to catch up - and she was a nightmare

spent the whole time mumbling jesus songs under her breath, telling me all about shes found salvation etc and everything i said that was good in my life was answered with 'thats the work of jesus' or 'ah praise the lord' and if bad ' thats the work of the devil' - she looked nuts.

i felt so sad for her. she didnt try to convert me, but she couldnt just be normal for 4 minutes.

i saw her again a good few years later and asked 'hows the religion stuff' - she just looked at the floor and said 'i dont want to talk about it' - gone was the dozy eyed look and i got the impression she was either extremely embarrassed by it all or that something serious had happened - sadly her bus came and she jumped on... i havent seen her since - and that was about 12 years ago...