For Fans Of Douglas Murray...

[vetuste_ennemi]

...this article:

http://standpointmag.co.uk/node/6239/full

I so love Murray, both in print and on TV, that I sometimes feel ashamed of myself for being a homophobe.

[Svejk]

Sadly, ve, it's unlikely to be read by the people who ought to read it.

[naomi24]

^I agree. Much of it has been said here and either hasn't been read - or has fallen on voluntarily blindfolded eyes. - mostly the latter.

[sevenOP]

It contains many valid points; democratic deficit, groupthink, social pressure and the abject failure of the EU to respond at all in a coherent, timely, constructive manner .

Also the media, which becomes even more important the larger institutions become, seems to have become the mere scribe of events without questioning/asking why? events are unfolding in that manner.

There shouldbe/ HAVE already been, TV debates and public debates throughout the EU and every parliament of EU countries and of course the European Parliament and all this covered extensively by the media.

There are many, many unasked questions in this total shambles.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Is the addition of a large Muslim population to modern Western societies a good, or a bad thing, SevenOP?

[Buenchico]

Perhaps it's simply 'neutral', V_E?

I find Islam abhorrent to me and I'd prefer not to live alongside Muslims. However I find Christianity equally abhorrent and I'd prefer not to live alongside Christians. Given that I'm not actually able to live in a totally rationalist society, I see no difference between living alongside either Christians or Muslims. They're both as mad as each other.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Neutral then, Buenchico? You haven't done the research. Please get a grip. You have made yourself somewhat ridiculous.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Disappointing to see someone with a brain who can't distinguish between a religion which preaches as its primary doctrine the slaughter of its enemies and, on the other hand, a religion which asserts that one should forgive one's enemies. Can't see the equivalence or the neutral position.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Why do I bother?

[Buenchico]

>>>You haven't done the research

Well, I've read both the Bible and the Quran, which some might see as a good starting point!

While a tiny section of Islamists might preach the slaughter of one's enemies, the wording of the Quran (as interpreted by the majority of Muslims) most certainly doesn't:
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/207/viewall/tolerance-of-prophet-towards-other-religions/

On the other hand, the (nominal) justification for the Crusades was precisely the slaughter of those of whose religious beliefs differed from those of their attackers.

As an atheist, who detests all religions, I've got no brief to defend Islam. However I also detest ignorance and uninformed prejudice, which you seem happy to display, V_E.

[Svejk]

The Crusades???
Seriously?? Haha.

[vetuste_ennemi]

I don't think you're stupid, Buenchico, but your last post might suggest otherwise.
Catch up with me tomorrow on the "ignorance" and "unininformed prejudice" accusations. I assure you that I can acquit myself of both charges.
I also think you come across as a good guy, and will apologise to me.

[Svejk]

You'll be lucky.

[murraymints]

mindless killing, slaughter of innocents and persecution has NOTHING to do with ANY religion..such acts are perpetrated by terrorists, fanatics and megalomaniacs in their name ONLY ..NO god whatever the creed is responsible for such acts only the ill/ mis informed and evil who purport to be acting in the name of religion...

[naomi24]

murraymints, //mindless killing, slaughter of innocents and persecution has NOTHING to do with ANY religion..//

What we're currently witnessing in this world has everything to do with religion. Denying it doesn't change it.

Chris, //I see no difference between living alongside either Christians or Muslims. They're both as mad as each other. //

No - they're not.

[murraymints]

naomi..it is NOT sanctioned by religion..it is extremist's interpretation of their religions and their fanaticism that enacts these atrocities...religion is used to hide behind tribal warfare and megalomania !

[Svejk]

That, minty, is the crux of the matter. An awful lot of the adherents of one religion believe they have been given carte Blanche to cause murder and mayhem.
It's no good burying our heads in the sand and forever saying 'it's nothing to do with Islam' because clearly, it has everything to do with Islam.
If it were a modern cult, it would be banned.

[murraymints]

and the world has many many peace loving muslims in it..they cannot be held responsible for the rogues who say they act in their name...Islam is not responsible it is the rogues within it..same can be said of other religions too..IRA per se...certainly not acting in my name as a Catholic or millions of other Catholics....there is no straight answer...human nature such as it is and the need to dominate and control is not religious...

[naomi24]

murraymints, Islam doesn’t have an equivalent to the Pope, or the Archbishop of Canterbury, to sanction anything. What is being done now is being done in the name of Islam – and it is sanctioned by Islamic literature. Don’t be fooled.

[naomi24]

murraymints, The IRA doesn't act in the name of Catholicism - it is a political organisation. To understand Islam you need to forget about any other religion. None compares.

[douglas9401]

Jeezo. (see what I did there?) It's a bit early for this BUT, since we're going, the lack of a groundswell of vocal opposition to barbarity and atrocity in the name of Islam suggests to me that there is tacit approval of the promotion of that cult by moderate adherents.
Christianity seems to have no difficulty in voicing opposition to violence done by their masters who profess that flavour, then again they tend not to send da boys round so much these days.