Biology Wins The Race

[naomi24]

Two transgender teen sprinters come first AND second in the girl's state championship months after one competed as a boy. Fair or not?

Very handy, this fashion for self-identifying.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5836021/Students-parents-demand-rule-change-trans-teen-wins-girls-state-championship.html

[hereIam]

I'm going to be controversial now - the world was SO much simpler when I was a kid !!

[jim360]

Not especially, it's just that the complexity was more hidden.

[Theland]

Liverpool - me tart, me bird, me birrastuff, the log haired one, the list goes on and is NOT often used in a derogatory fashion, just gutter slang, but not heard very often these days.

[Mamyalynne]

Oh - like Me Tarzan sort of thing?

[Theland]

Well I don't recall years ago, reports of big hairy dockers or miners running around in frocks.

[Theland]

Spot on Mamyalynne

[Sqad]

hereIam....it may be controversial but not for me, as i agree it did seem so much simpler.
Jim is just guessing that it wasn't so simple, but was better hidden. he may be correct, but the evidence is also hidden.
Transgenders for well below 1% of the population in the USA.

[vetuste_ennemi]

//Very few (yes, I know you can find some) women refer to themselves as a tart//

Quite a few call themselves "sluts", though:

[jim360]

It's not really a guess, though. Even if you leave transgenderism to one side (and you shouldn't), so many more things that we are open about today were kept much more private even just one generation ago. No guesswork required.

[Sqad]

Jim...yes, I agree, but are you assuming that it also applies to transgenderism, which is of course the subject of this thread.

[Mamyalynne]

Yes, some do - that wasn't the word Theland chose for his Wednesday self.

He/She may of course use whichever term suits.

Returning to the topic of competitive sport in the OP - I don't think it's fair.

[jim360]

Even that isn't a guess. Transgender people are well-documented throughout history, and across multiple cultures.

[Sqad]

Jim...again I agree, but the debate "seems" to be whether there is a "spurge" of thansgenderism OR if the percentage quote by you has increased or remains the same.
You say it has always been the same ( no evidence) and i say that there seems to be a "spurge" (anecdotal).

[Sqad]

LOl...by "spurge" I think I mean "surge."

[jim360]

Well, one also has to account for greater awareness, both allowing people to express themselves more freely than before and allowing others to be more aware of it.

It's clearly impossible to establish if the proportion of transgender people has been roughly constant in history. What *is* true, though, is that it's hardly a modern phenomenon, and in many places it was indeed well-recognised and respected for centuries.

In practice, it's usually been the Abrahamic religions, and especially Christianity, that have kept transgenderism under wraps and rejected its legitimacy. Even if you aren't Christian, it seems that this legacy lives on and affects the attitudes of atheists as well.

[mushroom25]

it would certainly be true that it is only very recently (in terms of human history) that surgery and endocrinology have permitted trans people to better visually express their chosen gender.

[hereIam]

Oh gawd same old same old argument about it all being 'hidden'!! It WAS a simpler time, I know I was there ...

[jim360]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you weren't particularly fixated on establishing how many people of your acquaintance were transgender, and, for that matter, that you didn't happen to have an interest in general demographic data.

Transgenderism is hardly a recent phenomenon. It's not difficult to research this for yourself. If you weren't aware of it when younger then... well, firstly, I don't mean at all that this makes you ignorant or blind to reality, it's just that wider studies show that it *was* a thing, so perhaps you missed it.

[kvalidir]

As being gay was a crime up until the 60's and scociety's general understanding of sexualities and identifying other than straight and your birth gender was not very broad, people who were Trans (and straight perhaps) were justifiably worried / scared / terrified ( insert whatever adjective you think most closely resembles how you'd feel at the possibility of being chemically castrated if they thought you might be gay) so clearly were less visible than they are today when being Trans is perfectly fine by most people (off AB anyway). There are no more Trans people than there were 80 years ago, we just see more of them now for obvious reasons.

[naomi24]

//we just see more of them now//

Seeing them is one thing, but it’s something else entirely when their lifestyle has a negative impact on others who, seemingly, have no choice but to accept it.