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Time To Stop Accepting Mind Alteration?
292 Answers
I have been considering the effects of drugs - all drugs - and the reason people use them.
The conclusion I have reached is that every single person who uses any kind of drug - tobacco, cannabis, alcohol, cocaine, heroin, does so in pursuit of a level of mind alteration.
Only the amount consumed, and the desired effect vary, the initial reason is identical throughout - to alter the mind's perception of the present.
Now this can vary from a glass or two of wine at the end of the day, or at a party, or a cigarette to 'calm the nerves' right through to the desired temporary oblivion of a large dose of heroin.
Of course, as a culture, we have absorbed the first examples as simply cultural norms, accepted and even encouraged, less so the last one which remains illegal.
But my point is, the subliminal desire to alter the mind to whatever degree is present in all of them.
Now the first argument would be - 'I drink because I enjoy the taste ...'.
Fine, then you can drink non-alcoholic wine or beer and not notice any difference can't you.
But no, we persist with 'acceptable' drugs because we, as a culture, accept that mind alteration is an acceptable thing to have in our society.
My question is - is it acceptable?
Should we not look at educating children and young people - the adults of tomorrow - that mind alteration is actually not a good thing at all, and is in fact creating a false reality, and leading to death through dangerous driving, liver damage, psychosis, and all the other results of ingesting drugs.
Drugs are not good, and we should be looking at getting rid of them as acceptable in society.
Thoughts please?
The conclusion I have reached is that every single person who uses any kind of drug - tobacco, cannabis, alcohol, cocaine, heroin, does so in pursuit of a level of mind alteration.
Only the amount consumed, and the desired effect vary, the initial reason is identical throughout - to alter the mind's perception of the present.
Now this can vary from a glass or two of wine at the end of the day, or at a party, or a cigarette to 'calm the nerves' right through to the desired temporary oblivion of a large dose of heroin.
Of course, as a culture, we have absorbed the first examples as simply cultural norms, accepted and even encouraged, less so the last one which remains illegal.
But my point is, the subliminal desire to alter the mind to whatever degree is present in all of them.
Now the first argument would be - 'I drink because I enjoy the taste ...'.
Fine, then you can drink non-alcoholic wine or beer and not notice any difference can't you.
But no, we persist with 'acceptable' drugs because we, as a culture, accept that mind alteration is an acceptable thing to have in our society.
My question is - is it acceptable?
Should we not look at educating children and young people - the adults of tomorrow - that mind alteration is actually not a good thing at all, and is in fact creating a false reality, and leading to death through dangerous driving, liver damage, psychosis, and all the other results of ingesting drugs.
Drugs are not good, and we should be looking at getting rid of them as acceptable in society.
Thoughts please?
Answers
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Mozz - // If in your opinion, people only drink to "alter their minds" then by definition, people only drink alcohol in order to get drunk. Surely, that isn't the case. I could easily have a pint or a glass of wine with a meal or out with a friend for a catch up, with no intent to get sozzled. //
My point is, if someone is drinking or smoking, or ingesting any other 'social' drug of choice, they are doing so to alter their perception and consciousness at the time.
Only the degree of alteration needed, and therefore the amount of the drug ingested, is variable.
That can vary from a single glass of wine to 'take away the nerves' at a party full of strangers, right through to enough heroin to kill an elephant, for instant oblivion.
// A lot of the reason for drinking is purely social, not necessarily to alter one's mind. //
Please see the paragraph above for my explanation of my belief in this situation.
My point is, if someone is drinking or smoking, or ingesting any other 'social' drug of choice, they are doing so to alter their perception and consciousness at the time.
Only the degree of alteration needed, and therefore the amount of the drug ingested, is variable.
That can vary from a single glass of wine to 'take away the nerves' at a party full of strangers, right through to enough heroin to kill an elephant, for instant oblivion.
// A lot of the reason for drinking is purely social, not necessarily to alter one's mind. //
Please see the paragraph above for my explanation of my belief in this situation.
Mozz - // I wonder if Andy's judgement is skewed by having seen people in his profession destroyed by drugs? //
No, it's not.
// I'd counter that by suggesting that some of the greatest recordings of all time have been made.while under the influence. //
It doesn't counter that at all - the two scenarios are not linked.
Yes plenty of musicians use stimulants to inspire their art - that actually bolsters my point, rather than arguing against it.
No, it's not.
// I'd counter that by suggesting that some of the greatest recordings of all time have been made.while under the influence. //
It doesn't counter that at all - the two scenarios are not linked.
Yes plenty of musicians use stimulants to inspire their art - that actually bolsters my point, rather than arguing against it.
emmie - // i take mind altering drugs, medication that is prescribed because if i didn't i would hit the skids, like the Christmas before last, i don't like taking them, but needs must. //
Me too.
But prescription drugs are in no way connected with the intake of 'social' drugs, for which the purpose and intent are entirely different, for entirely different reasons.
//Also i like the effect a glass or two of beer or wine has on me, it makes for a much more relaxed time.
I don't do it very often and no i wouldn't switch to non alcoholic beers or wine, i don't see the point of them. //
Eventually, a second person comes along to admit their reason for ingesting alcohol.
I am not in the business of judging anyone for their life choices - my point is merely that, as a society and culture that accepts mild alteration by 'social' drug use, we might want to consider if we should change that lifestyle and cultural choice - nothing more than that.
It's not a draconian condemnation, it's not judgement, it's a question to consider if you wish, or use it as an excuse to be personally offensive if you have nothing better to do.
Me too.
But prescription drugs are in no way connected with the intake of 'social' drugs, for which the purpose and intent are entirely different, for entirely different reasons.
//Also i like the effect a glass or two of beer or wine has on me, it makes for a much more relaxed time.
I don't do it very often and no i wouldn't switch to non alcoholic beers or wine, i don't see the point of them. //
Eventually, a second person comes along to admit their reason for ingesting alcohol.
I am not in the business of judging anyone for their life choices - my point is merely that, as a society and culture that accepts mild alteration by 'social' drug use, we might want to consider if we should change that lifestyle and cultural choice - nothing more than that.
It's not a draconian condemnation, it's not judgement, it's a question to consider if you wish, or use it as an excuse to be personally offensive if you have nothing better to do.
davebro - // AH - are you really suggesting that all drugs prescribed for psychological aberrations should be stopped? //
No I am not suggesting that - 'really' or otherwise.
The drugs I mentioned in my OP are all taken in social situations, they are nothing to do with medicinal drugs of any description.
// Would you take the blame for the upsurge in extreme mental illness, suicides & probably murders resulting? //
Clearly not, for the reasons already offered.
Speaking as someone with a vested interest in the maintenance of prescription medication, I would not be at all keen for them to be stopped.
But that is not the point I am making - please re-read my OP and note that the drugs I mention are not prescription medication.
No I am not suggesting that - 'really' or otherwise.
The drugs I mentioned in my OP are all taken in social situations, they are nothing to do with medicinal drugs of any description.
// Would you take the blame for the upsurge in extreme mental illness, suicides & probably murders resulting? //
Clearly not, for the reasons already offered.
Speaking as someone with a vested interest in the maintenance of prescription medication, I would not be at all keen for them to be stopped.
But that is not the point I am making - please re-read my OP and note that the drugs I mention are not prescription medication.
barry - // I must admit to not understanding the notion of 'social drinking'.
Yes, people can enjoy a drink or two or three with no intention of getting drunk, but what is 'social' about it? Is it different to having a couple of drinks alone?
Can't people be social without alcohol? //
A lot of people, probably the majority, cannot, which is entirely my point.
A lot of people, not everyone, but probably the majority, need alcohol and or nicotine in order to feel comfortable in social situations.
People who do this would never think about that as a reason, or notice that they are in the majority, but as someone who has spent their entire adult life doing neither, I know I am in the minority, because it is the standard system under which socialising in western society occurs.
Yes, people can enjoy a drink or two or three with no intention of getting drunk, but what is 'social' about it? Is it different to having a couple of drinks alone?
Can't people be social without alcohol? //
A lot of people, probably the majority, cannot, which is entirely my point.
A lot of people, not everyone, but probably the majority, need alcohol and or nicotine in order to feel comfortable in social situations.
People who do this would never think about that as a reason, or notice that they are in the majority, but as someone who has spent their entire adult life doing neither, I know I am in the minority, because it is the standard system under which socialising in western society occurs.
Patsy - // A lot of natural plants, herbs, etc, are mind altering. A lot put to good use, for medicinal purposes. //
They are, and for the fifth time, that is not what I am talking about.
The drugs listed in my OP are all 'social' drugs taken in social situations, not for medicinal purposes of any kind.
They are, and for the fifth time, that is not what I am talking about.
The drugs listed in my OP are all 'social' drugs taken in social situations, not for medicinal purposes of any kind.
SparklyKid - // My point is, if someone is drinking or smoking, or ingesting any other 'social' drug of choice, they are doing so to alter their perception and consciousness at the time.
Utter twaddle. //
I have explained my view, at length, so dismissing my points with rudeness is hardly adding to the discussion.
Of you have any backing for your view, I am delighted to read it, and discuss it, if you simply want to be offensive, you will be deservedly ignored.
Utter twaddle. //
I have explained my view, at length, so dismissing my points with rudeness is hardly adding to the discussion.
Of you have any backing for your view, I am delighted to read it, and discuss it, if you simply want to be offensive, you will be deservedly ignored.
choux - // I had no idea that egotism could be classed as a drug. //
I don't believe it can, and I have no idea what you mean by that.
// "...- all drugs -..." really?
All of them?
Seriously?
John 11:35. //
Or that.
// This is going to rattle around like the last 3 almonds and walnuts in the wooden bowl that none can break until someone chucks them out around Easter. //
Like all threads on AB, it will have died a natural death long before then.
I don't believe it can, and I have no idea what you mean by that.
// "...- all drugs -..." really?
All of them?
Seriously?
John 11:35. //
Or that.
// This is going to rattle around like the last 3 almonds and walnuts in the wooden bowl that none can break until someone chucks them out around Easter. //
Like all threads on AB, it will have died a natural death long before then.
Not many of those are technically mind-altering, andy. I take it you mean more literally?
I think there are countless reasons, from a wish to feel "different", to an addiction and avoiding a withdrawal (nicotine) , to a wish to feel "normal".
Self-medication can play a big part... someone stressed may have a glass of wine, or a cigarette to focus, up to alcohol for anxiety or LSD for adhd. Sometimes, your brain just knows what it needs.
I actually thought your aim was to "treat people like adults" and legalise them all?
I think there are countless reasons, from a wish to feel "different", to an addiction and avoiding a withdrawal (nicotine) , to a wish to feel "normal".
Self-medication can play a big part... someone stressed may have a glass of wine, or a cigarette to focus, up to alcohol for anxiety or LSD for adhd. Sometimes, your brain just knows what it needs.
I actually thought your aim was to "treat people like adults" and legalise them all?
"Like all threads on AB, it will have died a natural death long before then."
You did it again.
all threads ???
https:/
You did it again.
all threads ???
https:/
pixie - // Not many of those are technically mind-altering, andy. I take it you mean more literally? //
I accept that the alteration is mild and temporary, but alteration it is.
// I think there are countless reasons, from a wish to feel "different", to an addiction and avoiding a withdrawal (nicotine) , to a wish to feel "normal". //
Absolutely - that's why so many people do it.
//Self-medication can play a big part... someone stressed may have a glass of wine, or a cigarette to focus, up to alcohol for anxiety or LSD for adhd. Sometimes, your brain just knows what it needs. //
Again, no argument.
I am simply putting forward a suggestion that we as a society may wish to think about whether or not such alteration is good for us.
It's an abstract notion to be discussed around a virtual dinner table, but some people seem to take it as an excuse to accuse me of being some kind of egotistical fascist, I don't actually believe I am either.
// I actually thought your aim was to "treat people like adults" and legalise them all? //
That's another view for another discussion, I am sure you will agree.
I accept that the alteration is mild and temporary, but alteration it is.
// I think there are countless reasons, from a wish to feel "different", to an addiction and avoiding a withdrawal (nicotine) , to a wish to feel "normal". //
Absolutely - that's why so many people do it.
//Self-medication can play a big part... someone stressed may have a glass of wine, or a cigarette to focus, up to alcohol for anxiety or LSD for adhd. Sometimes, your brain just knows what it needs. //
Again, no argument.
I am simply putting forward a suggestion that we as a society may wish to think about whether or not such alteration is good for us.
It's an abstract notion to be discussed around a virtual dinner table, but some people seem to take it as an excuse to accuse me of being some kind of egotistical fascist, I don't actually believe I am either.
// I actually thought your aim was to "treat people like adults" and legalise them all? //
That's another view for another discussion, I am sure you will agree.
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