British Colonial Rule

[Hymie]

This story in today’s Daily Mail on-line interested me (especially as some ABers think me a racist).

In the article the Oxford professor claims that there were many very good things about British colonial rule, as well as very bad.

As an example of the one of the very good things about British colonial rule – he points out that we were one of the first to abolish slavery and slave trading within its territories.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12254917/Brits-feel-guilt-Empire-know-Oxford-don-tells-festival.html

[douglas9401]

I feel no 'general guilt' whatsoever.

[Zacs-Master]

That’s a bit like a man saying he was the first to stop beating his wife.

[ToraToraTora]

It was a great system, we basically delivered order and infrastructure to them. They wouldn't all be risking life and limb to get here if we still did.

[Zacs-Master]

Incidentally, I don’t feel any guilt but the knowledge that many stately homes were built on the back of slavery has tempered my view of their grandeur.

[Hymie]

As an Oxford professor who has studied the subject – I would have thought that there was some other very good thing the British had done; better than being one of the first to abolish slavery.

Perhaps ABers can provide examples of some very good things that Britain did for those under colonial rule.

[ToraToraTora]

We turned their countries into civilised places to live modelled on our own. They are so desperate for it now they die in the channel trying to get here. Look at what happened to Rhodesia, I bet there are many there now that would go back to British rule in an instant.

[ClareTG0ld]

I'm sure that the whole "Event XX was a Good Thingᵀᴹ" view of history was being mocked in the wonderful satire that is 1066 And All That.

[douglas9401]

I feel the same way about those wonders of the world, The Pyramids.
They didn't sprout from the soil or had the rich manhandling stone blocks.
Same goes for South American ones and all other ancient treasures of any size.
The suffering of the workers over years seldom, if ever, seems to get a mention, just the rich dudes who wanted them built in the first place so that they could hang on to their ill-gotten gains from life on the planet.

Guilt should be reserved for the guilty, it's not hereditary.

[rowanwitch]

Maybe the best thing we did was learn to leave when they were ready to move on without us., We no longer fight wars to keep our old colonies, we no longer wait until they rise up against us, the other side of colonialism may be benign paternalism, although some of our children grew up to be better than others, and some haven't decided to leave the nest yet.

[Zacs-Master]

Doug, At least those two examples were of wealth and status being kept in their own country (ok, you could say that’s worse as it runs the general populace’s nose in it so to speak) and not ‘exported’ to aggrandise a far,away country’s wealth and status.

[Zacs-Master]

‘Rubs’ not runs

[ToraToraTora]

rowan: "Maybe the best thing we did was learn to leave when they were ready to move on without us." - they never were that's why they are all trying to get here now. We basically exported civilised comfortable lives to these nations.

[Zacs-Master]

Tora, as you cite Rhodesia as a good example of what the British did being good, what do you think the Ndebele people would think of that after they were mown down by the then new maxim guns by the BSAP?

[Khandro]

Slavery has been among the most ubiquitous of all human institutions, across time and place, from earliest history until, some would argue, the present day.
It didn't begin with the British colonial rule, but they were the first to outlaw it - the French being not far behind.
It would be a good idea before discussing it to gain some facts, I would suggest starting with, 'The Cambridge World History of Slavery'.

[ClareTG0ld]

I think it's perhaps worth stressing that we* exported the Western model of "civilised lives" to those places. It would be the height of arrogance to maintain that this was, or is, the only viable model for a society.

*By "we" here I mean (primarily) the British, French, Spanish, Portuguese, and Germans, and should perhaps also include the USA.

[Zacs-Master]

It’s a ‘fact’ that a many of Britain’s wealthiest estates were built on the back of slavery.
https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/national-trust-colonialism-slavery/index.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-stately-homes-built-on-the-back-of-slaves-8518002.html

[ToraToraTora]

ZM no doubt there were a lot of bad things, all I'm saying is that overall we created civilised places for living with law and order and infrastructure. The sort that a lot of the world craves now and doesn't get. Rhodesia is just a recent example of what happens to a country when left to the indigenous rulers.

[ToraToraTora]

CTG: "I think it's perhaps worth stressing that we* exported the Western model of "civilised lives" to those places. It would be the height of arrogance to maintain that this was, or is, the only viable model for a society. " - well the med and the channel is full of people literally dying to get here so it's certainly favoured by a lot of people.

[Zacs-Master]

Tora 09.49:
I agree there were some good things but let’s not pretend there weren’t some godawful ones carried out in Britains pursuit of wealth and imperialism.

[Khandro]

//It’s a ‘fact’ that a many of Britain’s wealthiest estates were built on the back of slavery.//

This is true; from the wealth created by investments in the Caribbean, but many were also built by the wealth created on British soil during the industrial revolution.

Just remember though, that assuming you are of British descent, everyone, including your own forebears, profited in some way from slavery, even if they only put sugar in their tea or wore a cotton shirt.