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Why does Christianity offend people?
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Just been reading through Theland's Jerusalemn post, and it brought to mind the strength of opionion people have of Christians. Why do people seem offended if you are Christian, Makes no difference if you have never really talked to people about it, the moment you mention it, they recoil. Why? It has to be there own image, and I was wondering what it was. It was it can't just be the fear of jumble sales, and poorly colour co-ordinated crocheting!!!....or is it! ;-)
PS It does not seem to happen if you are Muslim, or Jewish, just Christian.
PS It does not seem to happen if you are Muslim, or Jewish, just Christian.
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Hi Naomi, sorry was just reading through your previous post, (your first one) You are right, the God mentioned in the bible does seem very much at odds with the Christianity belief of love one another, and I can answer this, you have to understand why there is a New testement and Old testement, Christ was sent to put things right, to correct much of the ambiguity of the prophets who dictated religious law as written in the Old testement. For instance the Old test quotes and eye for and eye.... but Jesus actually corrects this in the new testment.
Christians believe that the New testement is the Lord's words directly, through Jesus, where the Old testement is prophets.
There is SO MUCH more to it, but don't want to complicate, likewise, forgive me any theologians out there ;-)
Christians believe that the New testement is the Lord's words directly, through Jesus, where the Old testement is prophets.
There is SO MUCH more to it, but don't want to complicate, likewise, forgive me any theologians out there ;-)
I do get edgy around Christians I've not met before because I don't yet know if they are the lecturing kind and I have met a lot of them (I got a half-hour lecture last week on the sinfulness of Harry Potter when I was just trying to have a nice read during my lunch hour). I am not as worried about other religions as I have never been lectured to by people of other religions.
Of course I know lots of nice live-and-let-live Christians, but I am afraid the holier-than-thou ones have tarnished my image of Christians! I once worked in an office with a methodist woman and we literally had to censor every little thing we said and did as everything offended her.
Of course I know lots of nice live-and-let-live Christians, but I am afraid the holier-than-thou ones have tarnished my image of Christians! I once worked in an office with a methodist woman and we literally had to censor every little thing we said and did as everything offended her.
That's a rather nasty habit certain religious people have Hermia.
It's a kind of passive-aggressive preaching.
Being (probably deliberately) over sensitive to everything, it's kind of like saying "you're all awful sinners because you drink or read Harry Potter or don't tell people off when they swear"
Remember people have a right to follow their religious values. They don't have the right to force them on you and they certainly don't have the right not to be offended!
It's a kind of passive-aggressive preaching.
Being (probably deliberately) over sensitive to everything, it's kind of like saying "you're all awful sinners because you drink or read Harry Potter or don't tell people off when they swear"
Remember people have a right to follow their religious values. They don't have the right to force them on you and they certainly don't have the right not to be offended!
Nelly, your explanation of the difference between the old and new testaments doesn't wash. You're saying that either the prophets of the Old Testament misunderstood god's message (despite the fact that several had talked to him directly) - or at a later date god changed his mind and the rules. Don't those ideas strike you as convenient to the founders of Christianity (who in reality made up the rules as they went along)?
I don't know if you've only recently discovered Christianity, but I think perhaps you have since you appear to be very excited by it. However, you will find that a lot of people on R&S are incredibly well read on the subject, so I shouldn't worry about 'complicating' things. Rest assured that regular contributors here will understand everything you say.
I don't know if you've only recently discovered Christianity, but I think perhaps you have since you appear to be very excited by it. However, you will find that a lot of people on R&S are incredibly well read on the subject, so I shouldn't worry about 'complicating' things. Rest assured that regular contributors here will understand everything you say.
naomi, that was the whole point of Christianity. God struck a new covenant with his people by sending his son to live among them. (Men often become more humane and kindly when they become fathers; it seems God did too.) That's what distinguishes it from Judaism: Jews don't accept Jesus as the messiah and in effect they live with the old testament god. This isn't being 'convenient', it's the basis of the entire religion; you might as well say the existence of Mohammad was 'convenient' for Islam.
Good grief! Talk about antropomorphism, jno!
God as an omnipotent, omnicient being is hardly comparable with us mere mortals, but even if he were, most of us would think twice before signing up with a bloke who used to be into genocide, condoned the throwing of daughters to mobs to be raped and the tearing apart of boys for calling someone a slaphead, but who claimed to have chilled out since becoming a daddy.
In fact, half the people on here would probably want him strung up.
God as an omnipotent, omnicient being is hardly comparable with us mere mortals, but even if he were, most of us would think twice before signing up with a bloke who used to be into genocide, condoned the throwing of daughters to mobs to be raped and the tearing apart of boys for calling someone a slaphead, but who claimed to have chilled out since becoming a daddy.
In fact, half the people on here would probably want him strung up.
nonetheless, anthropomorphism is what it's all about, Waldo. People felt more at home with a god who knew something of their lives. Historically speaking, I believe Christianity spread fastest among slaves and women - those for whom daily life in the Roman era didn't offer much enjoyment were attracted by the idea that the hereafter would be better and that even the meek would be blessed. (Unlike religions that specified heaven was only for warriors, say.)
Actually, I did see Bettany Hughes the other day announcing that ancient Greeks expected to see heroes and demigods round every corner. I don't think I believe her, historian though she may be. Gods have always been pretty remote, showing up only as bad weather and crop failure.
As for God's belligerent backstory - well, forgiveness of sins is a major part of Christianity too, the notion that even sinners can be saved by God's grace. So I guess God would quite like people to believe that he too is a reformed character. Alas, his teachings - that Israelites should spend their days smiting unbelievers - are all too prevalent today.
Actually, I did see Bettany Hughes the other day announcing that ancient Greeks expected to see heroes and demigods round every corner. I don't think I believe her, historian though she may be. Gods have always been pretty remote, showing up only as bad weather and crop failure.
As for God's belligerent backstory - well, forgiveness of sins is a major part of Christianity too, the notion that even sinners can be saved by God's grace. So I guess God would quite like people to believe that he too is a reformed character. Alas, his teachings - that Israelites should spend their days smiting unbelievers - are all too prevalent today.
Sorry been away from post for a bit.
Naomi, I think you may be misunderstanding me, I'm not new to Christianity, and am always surprised, on this site and in daily life, how some very knowlegeable people, may get things wrong and equally some very new Christians can be be exceptionally profound.
As I said before, there is so much nonsense spoken about the bible, you would be amazed at how much it is misquoted. The accusations of passive-aggressive pyschobabble, I read is rubbish, I NEVER try to convert simply because, I believe that you are either called or you are not. my ORIGINAL question was why people seem so offended by other Christians, (not the aggressive ones) ones who never speak of their religion, who get branded as offensive for their beliefs.
From some of your responses I can see now that I was certainly not imagining this.
Naomi, you ask regarding my experience. Most Christians I know, have experienced God, as blinding light, and other incredibly tangible experiences, mine is similar.
Naomi, I think you may be misunderstanding me, I'm not new to Christianity, and am always surprised, on this site and in daily life, how some very knowlegeable people, may get things wrong and equally some very new Christians can be be exceptionally profound.
As I said before, there is so much nonsense spoken about the bible, you would be amazed at how much it is misquoted. The accusations of passive-aggressive pyschobabble, I read is rubbish, I NEVER try to convert simply because, I believe that you are either called or you are not. my ORIGINAL question was why people seem so offended by other Christians, (not the aggressive ones) ones who never speak of their religion, who get branded as offensive for their beliefs.
From some of your responses I can see now that I was certainly not imagining this.
Naomi, you ask regarding my experience. Most Christians I know, have experienced God, as blinding light, and other incredibly tangible experiences, mine is similar.
naomi (as is often the case) is quite right: many non-believers on this site plainly know more about Christianity than most Christians do. As a (almost) life-long amateur student of the origins of that religion I am constantly amazed at how ignorant Christians are about it.
Many of them believe that the gospels were written by people who knew Jesus, or were even his disciples! Some claim to know who the gospel-writers were, though no scholar would make such a claim. Few Christians realise that not a word was written about Jesus during the time he was supposed to be alive (and we don�t know when that was) or that there is not one ear- or eye-witness account of anything that he said or did.
Ask a Christian where Jesus was born and he will say �in a stable� but ask him where that is written and he can�t say. He probably doesn�t know, either, that Matthew contradicts Luke by telling us that Jesus was born at home in the usual way, which is where the wise men visited him, rather than in a non-existent stable.
Those are the simpler things; when one starts on the development of the gospels from the initial simple Mark (about AD70) (and probably John) to the more inventive Luke (about AD80-85) and the extravagant Matthew (about AD85-90) they are completely lost.
I have nothing against Christianity, any more than I have against astrology, flat-earthism or alleged spoon-bending. I am merely puzzled about the cheerful ignorance of its adherents.
Many of them believe that the gospels were written by people who knew Jesus, or were even his disciples! Some claim to know who the gospel-writers were, though no scholar would make such a claim. Few Christians realise that not a word was written about Jesus during the time he was supposed to be alive (and we don�t know when that was) or that there is not one ear- or eye-witness account of anything that he said or did.
Ask a Christian where Jesus was born and he will say �in a stable� but ask him where that is written and he can�t say. He probably doesn�t know, either, that Matthew contradicts Luke by telling us that Jesus was born at home in the usual way, which is where the wise men visited him, rather than in a non-existent stable.
Those are the simpler things; when one starts on the development of the gospels from the initial simple Mark (about AD70) (and probably John) to the more inventive Luke (about AD80-85) and the extravagant Matthew (about AD85-90) they are completely lost.
I have nothing against Christianity, any more than I have against astrology, flat-earthism or alleged spoon-bending. I am merely puzzled about the cheerful ignorance of its adherents.
That's the problem Naomi! I had HUGE misconceptions myself.
I can remember once going to a friend's memorial service, and the friend in question died from a drug overdose.
The vicar obviously didn't know this and at one point in the service, said "may the path to this church be wide enough to draw all who need it, and may it be narrow enough to that is should not bring drug addicts, gamblers, alcoholics..." I walked out AMAAZED, I wasn't a Christian at the time but even I knew that according to the bible these are EXACTLY the people who Jesus wanted!
I used to work with this guy, really nice, and got on well with him, one day he simply mentioned that he was a Christian. I avoided him like the plague, so did others. I guess there are some Bad stereotypes out there. All I want is for people not to assume we are all, frumpy or pushy etc, we're not. Honest. ;-)
I can remember once going to a friend's memorial service, and the friend in question died from a drug overdose.
The vicar obviously didn't know this and at one point in the service, said "may the path to this church be wide enough to draw all who need it, and may it be narrow enough to that is should not bring drug addicts, gamblers, alcoholics..." I walked out AMAAZED, I wasn't a Christian at the time but even I knew that according to the bible these are EXACTLY the people who Jesus wanted!
I used to work with this guy, really nice, and got on well with him, one day he simply mentioned that he was a Christian. I avoided him like the plague, so did others. I guess there are some Bad stereotypes out there. All I want is for people not to assume we are all, frumpy or pushy etc, we're not. Honest. ;-)
People have asked me many times, WHY do have faith in a God that permits War etc. I put up a post on another thread in R&S, titled, "Was wondering....."
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Society-and-Cul ture/Religion-and-Spirituality/Question437502. html#top
My LAST post explains in a REAL basic way, why.
Christianity is not for everyone I would never impose it on anyone, simply interested in ALL you answers.
Just out interest, what do you all think I look like, what kind of hobbies, lifestyle etc, I have? Genuine question ;-)
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Society-and-Cul ture/Religion-and-Spirituality/Question437502. html#top
My LAST post explains in a REAL basic way, why.
Christianity is not for everyone I would never impose it on anyone, simply interested in ALL you answers.
Just out interest, what do you all think I look like, what kind of hobbies, lifestyle etc, I have? Genuine question ;-)
chakka, you say 'Few Christians realise that not a word was written about Jesus during the time he was supposed to be alive'.
Sorry, but we can't possibly know whether this is true. All we know is that (so far) no such writings have been discovered. It's perfectly possible that such writings did exist and were handed down among Christ's followers, or that they relied on oral transmission in an age where that was much more common. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.
Sorry, but we can't possibly know whether this is true. All we know is that (so far) no such writings have been discovered. It's perfectly possible that such writings did exist and were handed down among Christ's followers, or that they relied on oral transmission in an age where that was much more common. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.
jno, of course it's convenient. Perhaps eye witnesses did record events - we'll never know - but if that is the case, then those records have long since disappeared. Do you honestly believe that ancient texts weren't re-written and amended to suit the church? And do you honestly believe that this all powerful god, who, since he created everything and apparently knew everything that was to happen, repents his actions and is reformed? If that's the case, just where is his newly-found compassion - where is this great love Christians tell us he promises - and why does the threat of hellfire and damnation still hang ever present? A loving father with a deep love for mankind? I don't think so. More a psychopathic control freak who demands nothing less than complete adoration. What it amounts to is 'worship me or face the terrible consequences". What loving father would make that the criteria?
Nelly, with all due respect I really wouldn't be amazed at how much of the bible is misquoted. Not only is it misquoted - it's constantly misinterpreted - and usually by blinkered and brainwashed 'Christians' who have listened in awe to other men, and have long since lost the ability to think rationally for themselves.
Nelly, with all due respect I really wouldn't be amazed at how much of the bible is misquoted. Not only is it misquoted - it's constantly misinterpreted - and usually by blinkered and brainwashed 'Christians' who have listened in awe to other men, and have long since lost the ability to think rationally for themselves.
Hello Nelly. I know you aren't all bad, and wouldn't for one moment suggest you are. I simply think you are deluding yourself. The thing is, Christianity, is a man-made religion - history proves that - and yet you believe your teachers, who in reality, have no more information at their disposal than those they preach to. Rather than investigate the reality for themselves, most Christians look to these people for guidance and blindly accept their word. Since we know without doubt that various councils debated and agreed upon the Church's credo, are you absolutely sure you aren't listening to false prophets?
I wouldn't say the atheists here are brainwashed - I would say they've investigated the bible and other ancient texts for themselves and have come to a rational conclusion. To assume they gain their information only from TV, radio and politics is not only a huge mistake - it really is rather an insult to most of the people on R&S. As I said before, you will find many here to be extremely intelligent, knowledgeable and very well read. In fact many have studied religion and Christianity in great depth, so make no mistake - they really do know their stuff. Perhaps if you sift through some of the previous posts, you will get a better idea of whom you are talking to here.
Incidentally, I am not an atheist - I simply don't believe the biblical god really was god - and I don't believe that Jesus was the son of god, or supernatural in any way.
I wouldn't say the atheists here are brainwashed - I would say they've investigated the bible and other ancient texts for themselves and have come to a rational conclusion. To assume they gain their information only from TV, radio and politics is not only a huge mistake - it really is rather an insult to most of the people on R&S. As I said before, you will find many here to be extremely intelligent, knowledgeable and very well read. In fact many have studied religion and Christianity in great depth, so make no mistake - they really do know their stuff. Perhaps if you sift through some of the previous posts, you will get a better idea of whom you are talking to here.
Incidentally, I am not an atheist - I simply don't believe the biblical god really was god - and I don't believe that Jesus was the son of god, or supernatural in any way.
naomi, I'm not a believer, I'm just reporting what Christians believe. As for hellfire, nobody has ever - not in my whole long life - threatened me with that. Although some fundamentalist telly preachers in the USA may do so, I don't think the average Christian believes anything of the sort; it's an imaginary stick atheists use to beat them with. Most Christians I know are kind and loving people, unconcerned with sending non-believers to eternal damnation. Ask yourself whether this isn't true of the people you know personally.
I also notice that atheists on websites like this are more likely to try to convert you than Christians are. Look on religious threads on AB and you'll see them spelling out at length why belief is wrong; Christians don't bother. (Though admittedly atheists don't come to my door in pairs to convert me.)
I also notice that atheists on websites like this are more likely to try to convert you than Christians are. Look on religious threads on AB and you'll see them spelling out at length why belief is wrong; Christians don't bother. (Though admittedly atheists don't come to my door in pairs to convert me.)
Strictly speaking, jno, you're right, but what you moot is so very unlikely as not to be taken seriously. Three things:
1. You cannot just assume that there were such writings, and without them there is no evidence of Jesus' existence. Don't forget that the first mention of him is by Paul in AD55 who offers no evidence or witnesses. Before Paul there was nothing at all.
2. It stretches credulity that the lifetime of Jesus should be the only period in history when wondrous things were supposedly happening and not one record of them survived. Why? There are plenty of writings in existence about other people and things of that time, and, for example, of Caesar a century earlier. And plenty was written about Jesus after he was safely dead, with no witnesses to contradict whatever was written.
3. Records which should have mentioned him do not. There is no trace of him in Roman or Jewish records of the time, nor do any historians writing at the time saya word about him even though they were discussing the state of Jewish religion and other contemporary things.
1. You cannot just assume that there were such writings, and without them there is no evidence of Jesus' existence. Don't forget that the first mention of him is by Paul in AD55 who offers no evidence or witnesses. Before Paul there was nothing at all.
2. It stretches credulity that the lifetime of Jesus should be the only period in history when wondrous things were supposedly happening and not one record of them survived. Why? There are plenty of writings in existence about other people and things of that time, and, for example, of Caesar a century earlier. And plenty was written about Jesus after he was safely dead, with no witnesses to contradict whatever was written.
3. Records which should have mentioned him do not. There is no trace of him in Roman or Jewish records of the time, nor do any historians writing at the time saya word about him even though they were discussing the state of Jewish religion and other contemporary things.
jno, I'm with Chakka all the way here - he's absolutely right. Apart from that you tell me that Christians in general do not adhere to the concept of damnation for those who do not believe. May I suggest that you sift through previous threads? There you will find some very definite - and often quite alarming - views. Since I have contributed to many threads on the subject for some considerable time now, I already know the opinions of most of the Christians participating in R&S, so have to reason to re-visit those posts myself.
You say that Christians don't bother to argue, but the simple fact is they don't have answers to the questions athiests ask and so duck out every time something a little beyond them raises its head. Twice in the past couple of days, in response to posts by Christians telling me of god's love for mankind, I've asked them to provide me with some evidence - note I ask for 'evidence' and not 'proof' of that - but surprise, surprise, not one single answer has been forthcoming. Why? I can only assume it's because Christians cannot provide such evidence, no more than they can provide rational answers to the questions posted here by intelligent, free-thinking people.
You say that Christians don't bother to argue, but the simple fact is they don't have answers to the questions athiests ask and so duck out every time something a little beyond them raises its head. Twice in the past couple of days, in response to posts by Christians telling me of god's love for mankind, I've asked them to provide me with some evidence - note I ask for 'evidence' and not 'proof' of that - but surprise, surprise, not one single answer has been forthcoming. Why? I can only assume it's because Christians cannot provide such evidence, no more than they can provide rational answers to the questions posted here by intelligent, free-thinking people.
Nellypope.. I certainly agree with you about christianity offending people, i normally mention it when i have annoying guests, you should see the room empty. They suddenly tell me there ill or the baby sitter has suddenly died or something along those lines.
I did read through the posts but nothing really answered the question very well, being honest i dont really know either. I did notice huge loads of annoying posts though. I am a chatty person in everyday life and talk to loads of people on every subject possible, but theres definitely something about christainity thats irrates them and i dont really understand it. My personal explanation is it's the one thing in life that we can't really understand or really control and its something we have to submit/bow down to and most people dont/cant accept that, only true humble people look beyond all the crap/**** thrown in the way. Most people need to be masters of themselves and the world and your a threat.
I did read through the posts but nothing really answered the question very well, being honest i dont really know either. I did notice huge loads of annoying posts though. I am a chatty person in everyday life and talk to loads of people on every subject possible, but theres definitely something about christainity thats irrates them and i dont really understand it. My personal explanation is it's the one thing in life that we can't really understand or really control and its something we have to submit/bow down to and most people dont/cant accept that, only true humble people look beyond all the crap/**** thrown in the way. Most people need to be masters of themselves and the world and your a threat.
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