T W A U ... The Chase...from...
Film, Media & TV0 min ago
Child Ownership
13 Answers
Afternoon,
While on another thread discussing whether IVF should be available free on the NHS or not I remembered a conversation I had with a friend when we were discussing something similar.
The point they made was that to adopt/foster was all very well but there was nothing like having 'your own.'
I've also heard another person say before that they'd rather not adopt because they didn't want to raise someone elses child because it wasn't 'their own.
Since when did having children become owning them? Is that what it feels like to have children, that you own them in some way?
It just sounds very odd to me. Or maybe I'm just being picky about the words used.
Cheers
China
While on another thread discussing whether IVF should be available free on the NHS or not I remembered a conversation I had with a friend when we were discussing something similar.
The point they made was that to adopt/foster was all very well but there was nothing like having 'your own.'
I've also heard another person say before that they'd rather not adopt because they didn't want to raise someone elses child because it wasn't 'their own.
Since when did having children become owning them? Is that what it feels like to have children, that you own them in some way?
It just sounds very odd to me. Or maybe I'm just being picky about the words used.
Cheers
China
Answers
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I don't really understand it, CD.
Of course there will be some folk who tell me I don't know what it's like not to carry my own child, or that I cannot possibly have an opinion because I have had children.
Mr P has a daughter from his previous marriage, and I have children from mine. Both of us love each others children as if they were our own, and my stepfather & I are the same...when my mum finally gave birth to his actual flesh and blood my dad insisted that she was his second daughter.
We aren't biologically related but by all accounts we are family ~ isn't that the most important thing in the world?
Of course there will be some folk who tell me I don't know what it's like not to carry my own child, or that I cannot possibly have an opinion because I have had children.
Mr P has a daughter from his previous marriage, and I have children from mine. Both of us love each others children as if they were our own, and my stepfather & I are the same...when my mum finally gave birth to his actual flesh and blood my dad insisted that she was his second daughter.
We aren't biologically related but by all accounts we are family ~ isn't that the most important thing in the world?
This is semantics, isn't it?
People who say they would prefer their own children aren't saying they want *to* own children! They mean they would 'prefer to raise' their own genetic offspring, and this is surely understandable as one of the most basic human urges.
Adoption is completely laudable and anyone who does it has my admiration, and Pippa is right to say that being a family is the most important thing but that doesn't mean that we should try and imply that it's in any way a mystery why people want their biological children not someone else's.
Incidentally, studies have shown that where murder of a child occurs in a family where there is a mixture of adopted and natural children, the victims are disproportionately adopted. That's not to infer it's likely - it isn't - but it does suggest that at some, doubtless unconscious, level, people do make a distinction.
People who say they would prefer their own children aren't saying they want *to* own children! They mean they would 'prefer to raise' their own genetic offspring, and this is surely understandable as one of the most basic human urges.
Adoption is completely laudable and anyone who does it has my admiration, and Pippa is right to say that being a family is the most important thing but that doesn't mean that we should try and imply that it's in any way a mystery why people want their biological children not someone else's.
Incidentally, studies have shown that where murder of a child occurs in a family where there is a mixture of adopted and natural children, the victims are disproportionately adopted. That's not to infer it's likely - it isn't - but it does suggest that at some, doubtless unconscious, level, people do make a distinction.
I think there is probably a distinction but I don't know how significant it is.
And I'm not entirely sure it is all about semantics either... I think the other reason I ask this is I'm also re-reading We need to talk about Kevin. And the 'ownership' or indeed lack of being able to identify with your own child is very much a theme in that too. So if your child does something bad as in that book then he belongs to and is attibuted to his mother. However if he did something good then he's a person in his own right and you can be proud of them.
I'm not really sure what I'm getting at actually. Just thinking aloud maybe.
And I'm not entirely sure it is all about semantics either... I think the other reason I ask this is I'm also re-reading We need to talk about Kevin. And the 'ownership' or indeed lack of being able to identify with your own child is very much a theme in that too. So if your child does something bad as in that book then he belongs to and is attibuted to his mother. However if he did something good then he's a person in his own right and you can be proud of them.
I'm not really sure what I'm getting at actually. Just thinking aloud maybe.
CD, you're just being picky about the words used.
In the context you describe, the phrases 'My own' / 'yours' / 'sombody elses' are intended to indicate the biological origin of the child rather than to convey any connotations of possession or ownership.
Similarly I might say 'London is my city'. It doesn't mean I think I own the bl00dy place, it just means that's where I come from.
In the context you describe, the phrases 'My own' / 'yours' / 'sombody elses' are intended to indicate the biological origin of the child rather than to convey any connotations of possession or ownership.
Similarly I might say 'London is my city'. It doesn't mean I think I own the bl00dy place, it just means that's where I come from.
I would adopt tomorrow if I could and have considered it a lot. I am content enough to know that I would be willing, able and dedicated to raise a child in a happy, caring and loving home. My wife would never consider adopting. She says she would not feel the necessary compassion to raise a child that was not borne from her/us.
Now that mini O is around, she is so far struggling with the concept of sharing her love with a mini O sibling (although this is probably inevitable), and does not see herself able nor prepared to show love and affection as much to an adopted child as she does/would to her own. It is something I cannot really comprehend and we do disagree on this issue a lot (not crockery throwing or anything) but I have to compromise and understand the wishes of my wife and the needs of any child who would potentially enter our home.
Now that mini O is around, she is so far struggling with the concept of sharing her love with a mini O sibling (although this is probably inevitable), and does not see herself able nor prepared to show love and affection as much to an adopted child as she does/would to her own. It is something I cannot really comprehend and we do disagree on this issue a lot (not crockery throwing or anything) but I have to compromise and understand the wishes of my wife and the needs of any child who would potentially enter our home.
I don't think we have a word in English that really describes the relationship you have with your offspring in a modern context.
You definately used to "own" your wife and children 400 years or so ago and I guess the expression comes from that original mindset.
We'd say "my" friend without meaning that we possess them but the word own emphasises the possessive character of the expression.
I suppose today we use the word in a way that implys an exclusive relationship.
"My own" child in the same sense as "My own" husband or wife etc.
You definately used to "own" your wife and children 400 years or so ago and I guess the expression comes from that original mindset.
We'd say "my" friend without meaning that we possess them but the word own emphasises the possessive character of the expression.
I suppose today we use the word in a way that implys an exclusive relationship.
"My own" child in the same sense as "My own" husband or wife etc.
That's a really difficult one to answer China, but I'll have a go. No, it doesn't feel like you 'own' your children - not as you would own a car, or a TV, for example, but they are 'yours' because they are a part of you, and you would protect them with your life if necessary. There are times when you don't particularly like your children, but you never stop loving them. It's probably difficult to understand how one human being can love another so much, but it really is an indefinable and unconditional love which never diminishes. Having said that, if nature had denied me the ability to produce my own, I would have adopted, and I think that child would have been the most precious thing on earth to me.
I know a couple who, after a long haul, have just adopted a lovely little two year old boy. They don't bemoan the fact that they are unable to have children of their own - they are just so grateful that they have him - and never was a child so loved. To them, he is their own.
I know a couple who, after a long haul, have just adopted a lovely little two year old boy. They don't bemoan the fact that they are unable to have children of their own - they are just so grateful that they have him - and never was a child so loved. To them, he is their own.
I have two step children who were adopted by my wife with her ex. My wife could actually have had children however the ex could not. They elected to adopt as opposed to any fertility treatment.
My wife loves her children in (imho) exactly the same way as if she had borne them.
Her mother in law however used to ignore them or at best say things like I have three grand children and your two. She certainly did make a distinction.
My step children have always known they were adopted and this prevented any future problems. (When the eldest was about 6 a girl came up and said she knew a secret - when he asked what the secret was, she finally said that he was adopted. He said yes, but what is the secret).
I must say that it winds me up when people say that they can't have a family when they can't have ivf or whatever. Personally, I think that people can be very selfish and they seem to think that if you haven't borne the child it can't be yours.
Probably should start a separate thread on Nature / Nurture.
My wife loves her children in (imho) exactly the same way as if she had borne them.
Her mother in law however used to ignore them or at best say things like I have three grand children and your two. She certainly did make a distinction.
My step children have always known they were adopted and this prevented any future problems. (When the eldest was about 6 a girl came up and said she knew a secret - when he asked what the secret was, she finally said that he was adopted. He said yes, but what is the secret).
I must say that it winds me up when people say that they can't have a family when they can't have ivf or whatever. Personally, I think that people can be very selfish and they seem to think that if you haven't borne the child it can't be yours.
Probably should start a separate thread on Nature / Nurture.
Worse are 'dog lovers' who ignore the dogs in rescue centres that NEED a home, preferring to buy a designer dog from a puppy farm, perpetuating the barbaric trade in puppies and consigning a healthy dog to slaughter.
I can understand people wanting children of their own - experiencing the pregnancy and birth and knowing the family history and so on. But I don't believe anyone has a RIGHT to children.
I can understand people wanting children of their own - experiencing the pregnancy and birth and knowing the family history and so on. But I don't believe anyone has a RIGHT to children.
You made a good point Vic. A close friend of mine has a step dad whom his mum married after his biological father did a bunk. He was raised as though he was his own son, and my friend has a younger brother and several half-brothers.
My friend and his wife now have a child of their own, but the step dad has, since the day the baby was born, consistently made a point of stating that the child really isn�t his grand child. I do think this is terribly mean and unfathomable � as if the point needs to be made in any event?!
My friend and his wife have given the step dad an ultimatum now as to whether the child is his grand child or not and whether he should be called granddad, or whether he wants anything to do with her. Its all a bit unnecessarily sad really and I feel sorry for my friends situation and the child.
My friend and his wife now have a child of their own, but the step dad has, since the day the baby was born, consistently made a point of stating that the child really isn�t his grand child. I do think this is terribly mean and unfathomable � as if the point needs to be made in any event?!
My friend and his wife have given the step dad an ultimatum now as to whether the child is his grand child or not and whether he should be called granddad, or whether he wants anything to do with her. Its all a bit unnecessarily sad really and I feel sorry for my friends situation and the child.
Thank you all so much for your opinons and please if you have anything else to add keep them coming.
I've not really made my mind up on any of this, as I already stated, I'm not sure where I'm goiing with it, it's just a thought in process really. I don't even know if it is just a case of semantics, (no children of my own to compare it to but my own parents were foster carers up until I was about 12). But I've really enjoyed reading all opinions so far, especially Vic's which was especially interesting because of the different circumstances involved.
I've not really made my mind up on any of this, as I already stated, I'm not sure where I'm goiing with it, it's just a thought in process really. I don't even know if it is just a case of semantics, (no children of my own to compare it to but my own parents were foster carers up until I was about 12). But I've really enjoyed reading all opinions so far, especially Vic's which was especially interesting because of the different circumstances involved.
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