Drink driving�.is enough being done to get the message across?

[AB Asks]

Recent weeks has seen the start of the Christmas drink driving warning adverts on tv. The fact that new adverts have been created suggests that the message hasn't yet got through to people. Does more need to be done to try and stop people drinking and driving? What are your feelings on this issue?

[Loosehead]

Very little can be done, we are down to he hard core drink drivers who will do it regardless. We can increase the penalty and lower the limit but I don't think any amount of TV campagns warnings etc will change the mind set of those that do it. Personally I'd lower the limit to a trace amount and make it a miniumum 5 year ban followed by a lifetime ban for a next offence.

[jake-the-peg]

Loosehead points out ( I think correctly) that hard core drink drivers will continue regardless - and then suggests upping the penalty.

How does that make sense?

Drink drivers, like most other criminals don't think they'll be caught - so it doesn't matter what you set the penalty to.

The only way is to increase the perception that they will be caught.

There's something to be said for local newspapers carrying lists of disqualified drivers but that could be counter productive if the figures start to drop.

With this one there's no substitute for bums in squad cars!

[Loosehead]

I want them to fear being caught, Jake, clearly now they don't fear it enough. I agree though we should be working on ways to catch them more readily.

[andy-hughes]

I can't see the prolem with a lifetime ban for any alcohol - combined with gating and padlocking all pub car parks.

If we were serious about stopping drinking and driving, that would sort the issue out - but because alcohol is so much a part of our culture, no politician will entertain such a draconian option - it's a vote looser.

[jake-the-peg]

No it wouldn't - harse punishments do nothing to deter those who don't think they'll be caught.

Otherwise the American's wouldn't have a high murder rate in states with capital punishment.

And you're assuming that drink drivers come out of pubs and not out of friend's houses.

Especially this time of year when people are visiting friends and family and they're not quite sure how much gin went in that G&T. But hey it's just a short drive isn't it?

Perhaps, and I hate to say it, we need to have mobile road blocks for random breath tests.

[Oneeyedvic]

Why are people getting worked up?

Because over 500 people die each year from drink driving related incidents.

To put it in context, there are around 700 murders a year.

Do you think we should get worked up about murder?

[jno]

Loosehead, one of the things about alcohol is that it tends to lower your inhibitions - and that includes your fear levels. So it's harder to persuade drunks not to drive that it would otherwise be. Perhaps branding a D on their foreheads would help; it would serve as a reminder to all. And I can't think of a better deterrent , offhand.

[andy-hughes]

That's the problem nesdesk - what is a 'limit'?

I sit across from a guy who has three or four pints most nights, and drives hime. he may be perfectly OK to drive, i don;t know.

I however amd teetotal, so a sniff of the barman's apron whould render me incapable of siting upright in a car, never mind driving it.

The point is, it's a lethal guesing game trying to keep a blod alcohol level under a legal limit, so make it zero for everyone, then everyone knows where they are.

Surely it's not impossible not to drink and drive?

Is it?

[Loosehead]

Thing is jno, I know that I am susceptable to drink driving if I put myself in that position so I make the decision whilst sober, Ie I do not take the car, even with the intention of leaving it there because I know that when I've had a few, I 'll consider driving so I take that out of the equation. Jake the current penalty deters me, all I'm saying is that a harsher penalty would deter more people and even induce them to do what I do pre-emptively as it where. The "deterrent" argument you use is flawed. Of course nothing deters everyone but If the limit where trace and you knew 1 pint would lose you your licence for 5 years with all the peripheral effects of that, are you seriously saying no one would be deterred? I agree with random stopping etc especially in the vacinity of pubs etc, has anyone ever seen an empty pub car park? They're not all on half of shandy!

[Loosehead]

andy, the limit needs to be a small amount, you dont want to be nicked for eating a spoon full of trifle do you! But I agree with the sentiment.

[Octavius]

I think the fundamental problem is that generally people do not know their limits (or are at best ignorant to what constitutes near or over the limit) and the do believe that they can get away with just a small drink and a small drive without being caught. The only real solution is prevention, or the perception of being caught at any juncture.

I would propose that the limit is �zero� or very near (since there may be a presence of alcohol residue in the system for a couple of days) and that over the festive period police spot checks and police road blockades for testing of all drivers seems to be the only way forward. I don�t think life bans etc are a deterrent, since most offenders would probably proceed to drive illegally and without insurance. If there is a system whereby some rehabilitation (retake driving lessons and test etc) this may be a better way forward.

At best it is a mere inconvenience to the law-abiding driver, or a few moments of fear wondering whether your halitosis has any alcoholic substance. At worst it catches those who flaunt the law and provides an active deterrent for considering driving after having a drink, thus making our roads safer and sending out the message that drinking and driving is unacceptable and can be fatal to everyone as well as you.

We also have a social responsibility to deter our friends and relatives from attempting this, and if I thought it was the right thing to do, regardless of who they were I would report anyone who ignored their legal responsibility.

[Oneeyedvic]

A zero limit on alcohol (or close to it) would seem as ludicrous as saying lets lower the speed limit to 40 mph on a motorway - ie overkill.

The majority of people do 'know' their limits and keep inside it - Something I would prefer to see is something like a breathalyser in every pub by the exit - so you can actually tell if you are over the limit - or preferably even a breathalyser linked to the car ignition system.

[China Doll]

I think the tolerence level for dink driving should be zero.

People may know their limits but people are subjective little creatures and while my limit may well be two glasses of wine I have a friend who can drink several pints and to all extents and purposes appear perfectly sober. However I'd not say either of us were fit to drive. Also, making a decision to drive while drunk or slightly tipsy makes as much sense as copping off with that person in the room who when sober you thought had a squint and a hygene problem but as you've had a couple you realise it was a sexy glare and an unusual perfume.

If you're then caught when drink driving then a six month ban could be the initial response, if caught again you're out of there. This may be overkill to some peoples view but being the subjective human that I am, my god sister was killed at the age of 15 by a drink driver... not totally plastered either just over the limit and lost control on a blind bend.

[Octavius]

How could it be ludicrous? The majority of people �do know� that the speed limit on a motorway is 70 miles per hour yet still struggle to keep within it. You can�t prevent speed but can discourage it with the now very high probability of getting caught followed hefty fines, points and bans.

From my own experience of drinking I know that one day to the next my alcohol tolerance levels vary greatly and resolve myself never to combine my drinking with my driving. I really don�t think there is any excuse for putting other people�s lives in danger for the sake of a few jolly drinks that could end the night in disaster. That would be overkill.

[Oneeyedvic]

First, Sorry China for your loss.

I think 'a few jolly drinks' is a bit of an overstatement.

I am male and just under 17 stone. I don't drink a lot and the most I would ever consider drinking when driving would be 4 pints of weak shandy or 2 small glasses of wine. I know this before the start of the evening and that is it. I ensure that I am not topped up when drinking wine.

I am going to a Christmas part on Saturday night. I will be getting there at about 7.15pm and will stay until 2am. To ask someone to drink coke or lemonade and lime for almost 7 hours is almost criminal ;-)

I will be drinking a lot of that but also 4 weak shandys

Incidentally, if I were to drive on Sunday morning following those shandys, under your proposal I would probably be over the limit.

It has also been shown that lack of sleep can be more harmful that alcohol.

[China Doll]

Hey Vic, cheers, hope all is well with you.

The thing is, while I see what you're saying why take the risk? Why drive anyway? You know what time you're going and when you're leaving so why not just call a cab? I'm not having a go but I genuinely don't understand the logic. Perhaps because I don't drive at all anyway (I've been begged not to learn).

And yes, under my idea then you would be over the limit in the morning too, is that such a bad thing?

As to tiredness, I agree with that too but I'm not sure how you'd go about regulating that except with possibly long distance drivers...

[Octavius]

Most people are in fact caught the morning after. The main thing is, they are caught. Hence, they probably thought they were within the limit. A zero tolerance (or thereabouts) sends out the message that if you drink or have drink in your system, then you simply should not drive.

[Loosehead]

yes vic do you base your entire social life around getting home afterwards? Get there by another means and drink what you like.