Poll Tax

[woofas]

Could someone explain to me, quietly, clearly, and rant free, exactly what was wrong with the Poll Tax? Was it the principle or the application that caused so much unrest?

[squarebear]

Just playing devil's advocate here but isn't it fair that the successful business man pays the same as the person who has no intention of finding a job? Why punish someone for being successful?

[ummmm]

How long did he serve? They used people as examples didn't they....pay or go to prison. See...look we've just sent another one down.

[squarebear]

and wasn't there a guy who changed his name to "Axe the Poll Tax" by deed poll?

[ummmm]

Why punish someone who wasn't blessed with brains so has to work at minimum wage?

[RATTER15]

I remember people turning up at the council offices to pay their poll tax in 1 penny pieces, they were arriving with all these pennies by the wheel barrow load, they apparently had no option but to accepts theses coins as it was legal tender.

[squarebear]

Not all jobs require brains.

[ummmm]

True RATTER but they soon changed the rules.

[jackthehat]

Being successful of not, squarebear, didn't come into it.
If you were over the age of 18 and lived within the boundaries of XXXX Local Authority you had to stump up £ ?X?X?X for your Poll Tax.

[squarebear]

Urban myth Ratter. The legal amount in copper is 20p. These people were told to take it away making them look bigger fools than they actually were.

[jake-the-peg]

As I say squarebear you can look at fairness from different perspectives

The sucessful businessman has not done it all himself nomatter how much he likes to think he has

(Ever notice how little the sucessful put down to good fortune)

He has taken full advantage of the infrastructure in the country that provides a highly educated workforce, a pretty uncorrupt business environment, an effective transport infrastructure etc. etc. etc.

I also note that the right wing always like to compare that with the supposed deliberately idle, rather than those who work hard but have not been so sucessful

I suspect that is easier to justify an argument motivated by self-interest

[ummmm]

True SB...but to be a successful business man they tend to come in handy..!!

[Rev Sermon]

Seemed typical of many laws. Poll tax in principle seems much fairer to me, what other tax are you exempt from if you house share? Trouble is the specifics were ill thought out and unfair, with far too many people being asked to pay more than they could afford.

I don't recall many people being better of, it just seemed an excuse to screw more money out of the population in general.

[annie0000]

Woofgang and squarebear are really making the same point here and whilst I agree, you are left with making the genuine suffer for the sins of the idle and shiftless. There has to be a fairer system. I also come from a financially disadvantaged background, but my parents always worked hard and although they earned little, it gave us a good example. I am one of 7 and none of us has ever been on benefits. I feel that I am both lucky and hard working and have therefore never needed hand outs, I am also happy to support those who need it and actually would be happy to see an increase in benefits to those who deserved it. However, I accept the fact that in order to support those who need it, sometimes I also have to support scroungers.

[woofgang]

annie, I think its not that difficult to winnow out the idle and the shiftless from the genuinely needy in most if not all cases....

[woofgang]

You are right to a degree jake but why should I support people who haven't contributed to that infrastructure in any way and who could have done?
Most of us who pay more than our fair share are not "successful businessmen" but people who have worked hard to achieve decent jobs and then worked hard to keep them.

[jake-the-peg]

I disagree that's exactly what Governments have tried to do for 50 years or more

It sounds like it should be really easy - especially if you're one of those people who takes what they read in the papers or sees on TV at face value.

In practice it's particularly difficult and long winded

[shaneystar2]

I think you were put on a band according to value of your property and charged accordingly . In those days I was a stay at home Mum with no income but still received a bill for the Poll tax which of course my husband had to pay. So that was double bubble for him . We lived in London then and had high enough rates as it was and our charges went sky high.
Doesn't really matter what system they have you still have to pay something ,but I think it should be based on peoples ability to pay .

[annie0000]

woofgang, I don't think it is difficult on a case by case basis, but trying to write parameters that cover every scenario in order to decide who gets and who doesn't is very difficult. Looking people in the eye and and getting a feeling for their genuine-ness is a better judge than reading circumstances on a form. Unfortunately the former is a labour intensive and therefore costly excercise and shuffling paper is much cheaper in the short term. I also think that Doctors and scoial workers also have a hand to play in this by supporting claims that have no merit.

[woofgang]

you are so right there annie, BUT there could be a setup that covered most circs, leaving only a few that needed to be decided by tribunal, and some rules on what is and is not appropriate while on benefit, eg having more kids!

[annie0000]

Hopefully something gets sorted out woof - it really does my head in sometimes and I am a socialist at heart. it's the little things that annoy and frustrate me. Like the fact that when the kids have sports day or a concert or something, and I can't go because I can't get time of for everything, but all the parents on benefits get to go. It feels like I am paying for them to support their kids while mine have nobody there to support them. :o(. I also hate the argument that you get about why do they try to make single parents go back to work when their place should be with their kids, especially when they *** of working parents for working while still taking money from those same parents so they can stay at home. Anyway, rant over.