How can you take a church seriously...?

[flobadob]

The church of england is changing the rules to allow female bishops. I'm not saying that I'm for, or against this but what I am saying is how can you take a church seriously if they just keep changing the rules to suit themselves? Surely the way a church lays out the rules at the start should be the way they stay. For example in a few years what's to stop them changing the rules to allow atheists to become bishops?

[jno]

Ratter, you seem to be equally cross with Christians who take the bible literally and those who don't. Why not just accept that some people hold different views from yours, and let them get on with it?

[RATTER15]

I just think that Christians should live as Christians according to their bible and not just pick all the good bits. I'm not angry, I don't do angry, I just find it frustrating how people think this God is so nice.

I'm sure Hitler and all the other savage murderers, racists, sexist, en-slavers had some nice aspects too, shall we fall in love with them just because they had a nice side and forget about the Evil they done.

[jno]

why on earth do you bother to tell Christians what they should believe? Do you think they're going to suddenly say 'Hey, the Pope's been wrong all this time, I shall make Ratter my holy father instead'? This is kind of unlikely to happen.

[pastafreak]

I don't know too much about what is said in the Bible...but I have the distinct impression that most is the word of man........not God per se.
Many early Church figures-men-declared that women would never preach or baptise....nor tell any man what to do. But this was a reflection of THOSE times.
So much of todays teachings and beliefs are based on interpretations of laws already part of society 2000 or more years ago.

[Greedyfly]

I shall stick to my views whether they are liked or not. I do not need to believe in anything other than myself.

[chakka35]

It would be interesting to hear from any Christian who agrees with the idea of not consecrating women bishops where in the scriptures such an edict appears. Paul, of course, was a misogynist anyway so his views are personal rather than scriptural.

After decades of (amateur) study of the origins of Christianity (which is what caused me to become an atheist!) I can find no such rule.

In Jesus' male-chauvinist Jewish culture women were officially second-class citizens, so it would never have occurred to anyone (including Jesus) to expect them to preach. But our society does not think that way, so what, other than bigotry, moves these traditionalists? Can anyone tell me?

[jake-the-peg]

I would have thought that the ability to change was a sign of maturity.

I'd imagine that many progressive people in various religions would argue this and that a simple closed minded unchanging rigid interpretation is arrogant and inappropriate.

I'm no fan of religion but you seem to be arguing that they're letting the side down by not being the dumb authoritarians that we often accuse them of being

[flobadob]

Well I'm arguing that you can't have it both ways surely. If you change God's ideas to suit us are you saying He is wrong in His outlook for how His word should be spread on earth. I'd just like to hear the argument put forward by the clergy making this decision to see how they view changing the rules. Do they even really think about it from a religious viewpoint or are they just doing this to keep the numbers up?

[RATTER15]

Pastafreak, these are actually the words of God from the old testament, not hear say!!

and as far as im concerned I am just giving my viewpoint in response to the question nobody has to read it.

[naomi24]

I can see what both Flobadob and Ratter are saying - and they're right. Christians do change the rules to suit. If they really believe the Bible to be the infallible word of God, which presumably they do, then they cannot accept women priests.

This is what St Paul (the real founder of the Christian Church) had to say on the subject. //.... I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.//

jno //Why not just accept that some people hold different views from yours, and let them get on with it?//

Because they don't just' 'get on with it'. Their views intrude, uninvited, into other people's lives - and those people are quite entitled to object.

[Le Chat]

During the time the Bible was written, women were having baby after baby after baby...It was a completely different time and lifestyle. There is no way that a woman in those days would be 'allowed' to do anything!!
So now we are in a different century and everything has developed and changed.
I remember the fracas about women newsreaders at the time!
It's so not important!

[flobadob]

If it's not important then religion isn't important.

[pastafreak]

Here is a rather extensive article that demonstrates that women were valued and encouraged in the early church,and that it may be that Paul never forbade women to teach or preach. I have not read all,nor do I understand all I have read...yet it seems much is down to translation of early texts. I am not arguing either way....I simply see this as history,and how scholars interpret it.

http://www.churchofgo...om/women/w_with.shtml

[RATTER15]

So I think in general people think that the writings of the bible are o longer relevant and that these words in the gospel can be updated as we/they feel fit?

If these were originally gods words, why doesn't he revise them as he feels fit?

If God sent a message to the pope or other christian leader to update his words, who would actually believe it?

[flobadob]

Sort of like what I was on about last week. If Jesus showed back here would anyone actually take him on?

[Hopkirk]

According to the Bible I can sell my daughter, and slavery is OK.

Why don't the current day church follow this, if it is the word of God?

[welshlibranr]

I think that churches have their uses, for folk who are alone and lonely, for them the church provides a social life, they are not there, in the main, because they are at all interested in religion, they just pretend to be!....................

[naomi24]

//If God sent a message to the pope or other christian leader to update his words, who would actually believe it? //

The Roman Catholic church considers the Pope's word to be just as infallible as God's, so millions believe every word he utters. If he suddenly decided to promote the use of condoms in the Third World, think of the human suffering and misery that would be avoided. Pity he doesn't.

[beso]

How to take church seriously? Traditionally the church used torture or murder of anyone who wouln't take them seriously.

Fortunately the secularisation of governance removed their right to indoctrination by force and we see a rapid decline in their influence.

[Ankou]

it is a club i don't belong to so why should i care whether a woman gets promoted or not. if they feel market forces demand a change, then good for them for doing it rather than sticking in the mud and acting like neanderthals.

i think a woman for pope would be a splendid idea. but i still wouldn't care very much. does that make me sexist ?