Learning a foreign language

[Dris]

I started conversational Spanish lessons.I have been to one night class.Missed 2 -first as my grant hadnt come through (although I could have started but didnt know) and last week as I was ill.

I dont think its the type of learning for me.I asked for the sheets which summarise what was discussed to be sent to me and to be honest after 10 minutes I had the gist.

I would say that its 15 minutes learning stretched to 2hrs as you continually go around the table asking the person next to you 'What is your favourite colour?.They reply and then ask what your is etc etc and with 12 students it pretty dull.

Right - can anyone suggest a tried and tested way of learning apart from evening classes.
I really need to learn about the grammar rather than nouns (they can be picked up -its stringing a sentence together which is foxing me thus far).

All help appreciated.

[Dris]

Anyone???

[sandyRoe]

I think in the class with an experienced teacher is the place for that. I've tried Rosetta Stone and wouldn't recommend it. It's not cheap, either.

[coccinelle]

I'd say the best way to learn grammar is with a book I used Harraps when I was learning Italian. These conversational groups are for that; conversation. unfortunately, if there are like you say 12 students in a class and it's group conversation it means you don't speak much! I give English lessons to French people and tend to let them get into pairs or threes so they speak more. If you live near a university there might be some Spanish students there, who would like to teach one to one or better still a small group of 4 say. However, the best way to learn is to go over to Spain on a language learning holiday. HTH

[mike11111]

My heart goes out to you. As a linguist (French and Russian) I can think of nothing more boring than endlessly repeating fatuous phrases like "What is the name of your cat? or Coffee with or without milk?" I would suggest home learning: buying a proper textbook with CD/cassette for pronunciation, at the same time having access to a native speaker of your chosen language should you have any difficulties. Not easy, I know, but perseverance pays off in the end.

[shaneystar2]

I remember doing French at school out of a book .I can just about remember that the the pen of my aunt is on the table of my uncle :)

When I married my husband who is a german I was thrown in at the deep end and had to learn it on the hoof .
In my humble opinion the only way to become fluent ( and I mean very fluent even to the extent of slang ) in another language is to live and work amongst the natives .
I tried classes, books and all sorts to no avail .Then my ma in law got me a job and I cracked it in about a month :)
If I had never bothered to learn my husbands native tongue I would have missed out on so much .Children of course pick it up easily .Mine did and are bi - lingual .

[mike11111]

LOL, remember that well. "La plume de ma tante est sur le bureau de mon oncle". Also a hit single for the late, great Alma Cogan. Illustrated an important grammatical point, though.

[jomifl]

To learn anything like a language you have to repeat it. Theory is necessary, but you can't have a proper conversation with yourself. Repeating phrases means that you can put your thoughts into words without trying to construct phrases from scratch. You need both in step with one another. Perhaps your teacher is trying to get you into the rhythm and sound of the language first.

[Prudie]

I started Rosetta Stone Spanish a couple of months ago and to be honest it's not for me. I'm getting high scores but that is only because I can understand what they're saying in relation to the pictures but could not put it together myself. And although I can understand and possibly reconstruct 'the black cat is watching the fish' I don't think that will get me far in conversation with a Spanish person! I'm thinking of getting an old fashioned grammar book (like I would have had at school) and also wish I had a native speaker to teach me.
I've looked at evening classes but there aren't any convenient to me. I think we all have our own preferred way of learning and I'm fed up that I haven't found mine where Spanish is concerned.

[Dris]

Thank you all for your answers;
sandy -my teacher is not a 'recognised' teacher-she was a rep altho she was good at the conversational and where the emphasis should be etc.

cocconelle -good old Harrap eh? Shall try that.Glad you appreciate the difficulty plus its crucial I learn as we have had a house in Spain for the last 5yrs and its coming to the time where we will be in the postition to move out permanently.

mike -fortunately I have a Spanish neighbour who I am very good friends with and she has offered but i wanted to have some Spanish so she wasnt having to start from sc ratch.Im think the CD if played constantly as im rattling about would have a subliminal effect.Well can only hope !!

shaney -im hoping that if I have a basic knowledge then when we go out to live it might fall into place :)

jomifhl -I get where youre coming from but I was truly bored after one leson -she had to concentrate on the people who seriously were trying to say their own names in Spanish.It just didnt tick the boxes for me -I think I am able for one on one type tuition -I have a short attention span so you can imagine what I was like sitting for half an hour to hear what someones fave colour was lol
Im amazed what i picked up in 'two' hours and the catch ups -its given me a lot of info to go solo and you guys have given me enough tips on how I can continue it.
Gracias:)

[Dris]

prudie -sorry missed you there.
Conversational Spanish isnt enough for me as I have to deal with the things we have to deal with here (we currenly pay someone to do this for us) -Lawyers.Electricity,Water,Council Tax (or equiv).I need to have a basic grounding and for that I need to learn the basic grammar.As I said i can do nouns and just flail my arms but I really need to understand what people are saying in the 'real' Spanish world and not just the 'holiday' one and I have to have the confidence to respond even in 'pidgon' Spanish.Have to say im quick to pick up languages -lets face it most of the European words are very similar anyhow so i'm not as daunted as i was.

[jomifl]

Hi Dris, I appreciate what you are trying to do, We moved to france over a year ago and my wife is really struggling with the language. I was lucky enought to have O level french and have done converational french classes over many years. Even this doesn't prepare you for the idioms and the vernacular let alone the strong local accent. It is getting better for both of us though. So.. 'Bon Courage' as I believe they say here. We still can't believe how lucky we are to be living here.

[Dris]

O nice one jomifl -I had no idea you lived abroad.Dont answer if you dont want to but can I ask how old you are and where you are?
Reason being -im 51 and my husband is 50 tomorrow (yaaah) and we so wanted to live the dream.We could but because of the recession in Spain we have had a knock back casual job wise.We dont want to feel like we're on a perma holiday at our age altho we could.We have a delighful townhouse just 3km from the Mar Menor -south east -Costa Calida and we so just want to bite the bullet as life as we all know is all too short.We are fortunate we can keep our home in Scotland so we dont have to sell up.I admire you and your wife for taking the plunge -I dont expect its easy but i love an adventure. (BTW -my French is blooming good which is extra annoying and so is my husbands as he lived there and was schooled there when younger-his dad worked for Michelin-but we chose Spain ????).

[jomifl]

Hi Dris, Its no secret, I am nearly 66 and my wife is 68. We live halfway between Toulouse and Bordeaux. I find Spain fascinating, but we are both francophiles and feel more comfortable here and we have been exploring france for decades. We got caught by the recession it took us 2 years to sell our house in UK so that we could move to the house we already had in france. Our lifestyle has changed radically as we don't have to penny pinch any more. We have been accepted by the locals. We were given another pheasant on sunday and we are on kissing terms at our favourite restaurants. Our neighbour has given us the keys to his swimming pool. You are going to have a wonderful life, just stay out of local feuds and accept the Spanish as they are. We feel more at home here than we ever did in the UK.

[Dris]

Thanks for your tips jomihl-it sure helps.
We have been going out to Spain 4 times a year if we can afford the flight (ginormous at the moment) and like you as we live in a lovely rural village we are greeted by Tomas at our local tapas bar and hostelry with hugs and kisses from himself and his extended family.Even Grogor at the local supermarket knows us then of course theres Juan whi can be a pain if youre only there for a week as he appears thrice daily for his cup of tea and wheeky ;).We have a communal pool which is a blessing and keep ourselves to ourselves although we are friendlky with some of the brave Brits who have done the deed.Lovely place-time is getting nearer for us to give it a go -aiie au secours lol !!!

[jake-the-peg]

I've been using the French version of this

http://www.spanishpod101.com/

you can sign up for a free month but even if you don't continue you get access to the lessons after that

[Dris]

Great link jake -gonna give that a go along with the Harrap book.Thank you:)

[jake-the-peg]

Quick advice

when you first sign up there's a "once off offer" for a learning kit at cheap rate - actually it's pretty much just a couple of CDs - I wouldn't bother if I were you

[Dris]

Cheers for advice jake.

[Andyvon]

I agree with shaneystar. I never fitted into classroom environments and I stopped going to school completely when I was 14. I do remember those mind-numbing French lessons and I never learned a thing. I'm 48 now and I learned to speak French simply by spending time in France. I wouldn't claim to be fluent, but I can happily chat with French locals and it's been years since someone screwed their face up and said "Uh!".

I remember that I picked up words, phrases and sentences from almost everywhere - posters, menus, hotel literature, brochures, TV, newspapers etc. I took to carrying an English/French dictionary and when I came across a word or phrase I didn't understand I made a point of finding out - even asking hotel or shop staff. I always spoke French whenever I could and I usually found the French to be impressed with my efforts and more than happy to correct me in pronunciation and grammar. That correction became less and less until I can chat in French now and not make too many apparent mistakes.

I've found the same thing travelling in other countries. Before I go I always make a point of learning 'Yes', 'No', 'Please', 'Thank you' and the numbers 1-10 in the local language. Within a week I usually pick up enough of the language to be able to order from menus, order coffee in cafes, ask for basics in shops, ask directions and always being polite to people in their own language.

I don't think anyone ever learned much in a classroom (what percentage of British 16 year olds are fluent in a foreign language?) You've got to get out in the world to learn.

[mike11111]

I agree with Andyvon, but still think a little classroom teaching of basic grammar is a good point on which to build a foundation. I am fairly (though not perfectly) fluent in French. For many years as a teacher I was barred from accompanying the children abroad on their annual French trip because I spoke better French than the French teacher, and might show her up. One year I was summoned to the Head's office, where he begged me in a panic to go on the next trip. Apparently the French teacher had fallen pregnant and couldn't travel. The Head used to go on this trip every year as a kind of freebie yet had never managed to pick up a word of French. I was to be his passport to "les bonnes choses". I agreed, and did such a wonderful job (IMHO) that I was asked to lead the trip thereafter. What does stick in my mind, though, is the paucity of classroom language teaching (not necessarily the teacher's fault). After nine months they could ask for a coffee with or without milk, or a strawberry or blackcurrant ice cream, and that was it.

What really pissed me off though, was my fellow teachers (non-French speaking). I would go out of my way to help my pupils find their way around town, buy things in shops etc. yet those adults who had just come along for the ride expected me to be at their beck and call to do the same for them. My only consolation was that I could swear at them In French and they couldn't understand.