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Death to Apostates!
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More evidence of how enlightened and tolerant the religion of Islam can be....
http://www.jihadwatch...-to-christianity.html
How can anyone with any sort of free will place any credence in a religion so weak, so insular,so paranoid, so backward that it has to kill converts to another religion ?
And what is the penalty for atheism? Death, or something a bit less drastic?
http://www.jihadwatch...-to-christianity.html
How can anyone with any sort of free will place any credence in a religion so weak, so insular,so paranoid, so backward that it has to kill converts to another religion ?
And what is the penalty for atheism? Death, or something a bit less drastic?
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You're crazy if you think the jihadwatch website is not an anti-Islamic mouthpiece.
That doesn't mean that one should not criticise dubious aspects of the way Islam is interpreted by some of its followers, in the same way that other religions are perverted by some of their followers.
But one rarely gets a sensible debate from these "single issue" websites
That doesn't mean that one should not criticise dubious aspects of the way Islam is interpreted by some of its followers, in the same way that other religions are perverted by some of their followers.
But one rarely gets a sensible debate from these "single issue" websites
@ ichkeria. Jihadwatch,as it's very title suggests,is not a pro-Islam site.That would only be a relevant comment however if they were misreporting or making up the story - and neither is true. The story has been widely reported in many media outlets, there have been representations to various governments and international aid agencies etc.
I simply used that link as it was the last one I read before creating the article.
As far as I am aware, the only source of stories refuting the claim that this preacher is facing the death penalty for apostasy is the Iranian govt media agency - hardly an agency with any credibility when it comes to the presentation of impartial articles!
I simply used that link as it was the last one I read before creating the article.
As far as I am aware, the only source of stories refuting the claim that this preacher is facing the death penalty for apostasy is the Iranian govt media agency - hardly an agency with any credibility when it comes to the presentation of impartial articles!
Ill-Billym- Yes you are right that this question had nothing to do with evaporation of plane (in other words 9/11). But if you scroll up you would see that my earlier posts were all about apostasy until Naomi posted at 14:13 on Sunday 2nd Oct 2011 sighting 9/11 so it is my duty to clarify. However since then Naomi has done what Naomi does best, avoiding the questions. At 18:02 on the same day I did say that I want to get back to the original question.
Unfortunately people do not understand Islamic Jurisdiction (difference between “Hadd” and “Taazeer”) and therefore do not understand punishment in Islam for apostasy. In simple words there is not a “SINGLE VERSE” in Quran which talks about death punishment and has never been “A SINGLE” incident at the time of Muhammad (pbuh) where someone was executed for “apostasy only”. On the other hands there are many verses speaking otherwise. And very simply (at least I) do not know the exact story about this case either as all we know is from western media and pro Christian websites. But I will leave it there
Unfortunately people do not understand Islamic Jurisdiction (difference between “Hadd” and “Taazeer”) and therefore do not understand punishment in Islam for apostasy. In simple words there is not a “SINGLE VERSE” in Quran which talks about death punishment and has never been “A SINGLE” incident at the time of Muhammad (pbuh) where someone was executed for “apostasy only”. On the other hands there are many verses speaking otherwise. And very simply (at least I) do not know the exact story about this case either as all we know is from western media and pro Christian websites. But I will leave it there
Yet again you make excuses for your neanderthal and savage religion.
"has never been “A SINGLE” incident at the time of Muhammad (pbuh) where someone was executed for “apostasy only”. No of course not your religion and its advocates just trump up charges, to try and justify what they want.
Your religion allows no freedom, it allows no dissenting voice it just smashes any opposition and all the time quotes your book of fairy tales as justification.
You should remember Keyplus that if your right you will one day have to stand in front of Allah and justify what you have done. And if your book is right most of you will end up in hell
"has never been “A SINGLE” incident at the time of Muhammad (pbuh) where someone was executed for “apostasy only”. No of course not your religion and its advocates just trump up charges, to try and justify what they want.
Your religion allows no freedom, it allows no dissenting voice it just smashes any opposition and all the time quotes your book of fairy tales as justification.
You should remember Keyplus that if your right you will one day have to stand in front of Allah and justify what you have done. And if your book is right most of you will end up in hell
As I have said many times, all the Abrahamic religions advocate fascist philosophies. Fascism was undoubtedly the first attempt to make people accoutable. It is simple and does not require general compliance because it uses force to prevail.
It was initally very successful in various forms that range from Nazism through to benevolent monarchies, but they are all based on enforcement of compliance in the hope that universal submission will bring ultimate peace.
Religious devotion under these conditions is a dead end philosophy that can only develop to despotism as we see everyheere it has become the dominant paradigm.
It was initally very successful in various forms that range from Nazism through to benevolent monarchies, but they are all based on enforcement of compliance in the hope that universal submission will bring ultimate peace.
Religious devotion under these conditions is a dead end philosophy that can only develop to despotism as we see everyheere it has become the dominant paradigm.
Keyplus, do stop making a fool of yourself. Everyone can read - and few here are stupid.
From canonical hadith:
Bukhari (52:260) – “…The Prophet said, ‘If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.’ ”
Bukhari (84:57) – “[In the words of] Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.’”
Bukhari (89:271) – A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to “the verdict of Allah and his apostle.”
From canonical hadith:
Bukhari (52:260) – “…The Prophet said, ‘If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.’ ”
Bukhari (84:57) – “[In the words of] Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.’”
Bukhari (89:271) – A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to “the verdict of Allah and his apostle.”
Ill-billym – Of course I would explain what those passages mean. The only thing is that I wonder if you really do not understand or is it a tongue in cheek expression. Either way it is my duty to explain according to my knowledge.
Naomi – Some time I do feel that it might do you good if you could go past “religionofpeace” and “faithfreedom” websites. OK let’s see what is there.
Before I explain there is a very well known saying in English that “actions speak louder than words”. So Muslims clearly have a system, Quran, then Sunnah (action of Prophet) and then Hadith (Sayings of Prophet). Muhammad (pbuh) himself said that if any of his hadith (saying) goes against Quran then discard it as it would not be from me. And I can give you dozens of Hadiths where prophet just let the apostates go and in English that is known as action. So Muslims know the difference between all that but you and Christian missionaries do not. Now if you go back to my earlier post I said,
/////Keyplus 90 - In simple words there is not a “SINGLE VERSE” in Quran which talks about death punishment and has never been “A SINGLE” incident at the time of Muhammad (pbuh) where someone was executed for “apostasy only”./////
All of the “Hadiths” you quoted have context behind them for example your 52:260 has explanation in 52:259. And other Hadiths are related. Same hadith can be narrated by many people.
Then came to my mind that according to your own statistics 6 million people are leaving Islam every year only in Africa. How many out of them are being killed every year? So please let me know either 6 million figure is correct or no one being killed for apostasy out of them is correct?
Naomi – Some time I do feel that it might do you good if you could go past “religionofpeace” and “faithfreedom” websites. OK let’s see what is there.
Before I explain there is a very well known saying in English that “actions speak louder than words”. So Muslims clearly have a system, Quran, then Sunnah (action of Prophet) and then Hadith (Sayings of Prophet). Muhammad (pbuh) himself said that if any of his hadith (saying) goes against Quran then discard it as it would not be from me. And I can give you dozens of Hadiths where prophet just let the apostates go and in English that is known as action. So Muslims know the difference between all that but you and Christian missionaries do not. Now if you go back to my earlier post I said,
/////Keyplus 90 - In simple words there is not a “SINGLE VERSE” in Quran which talks about death punishment and has never been “A SINGLE” incident at the time of Muhammad (pbuh) where someone was executed for “apostasy only”./////
All of the “Hadiths” you quoted have context behind them for example your 52:260 has explanation in 52:259. And other Hadiths are related. Same hadith can be narrated by many people.
Then came to my mind that according to your own statistics 6 million people are leaving Islam every year only in Africa. How many out of them are being killed every year? So please let me know either 6 million figure is correct or no one being killed for apostasy out of them is correct?
Keyplus, here we go. The same old whinging story. Contradictions in your literature abound - as does ambiguity - which means people like you will always find an excuse for its appalling content. Perhaps if Allah had picked someone a bit more literate than Mohammed to reveal his dubious wisdom to, we might all have known what he was talking about.
Let's take this for example:
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Now I know you relate this to situations of war, but in that case, why doesn't the text command you simply to murder your enemies rather than specifically those who happen to be non-believers? I don't think there can be any way around that Koranic verse, Keyplus. It says what it says.
And following on from that, just what is fundamentalist Islam's interpretation of the word 'war'? The 9/11 bombers considered themselves at 'war' when they slaughtered 3000 innocent people in the name of Allah - as did those bloodthirsty barbarians who chopped poor Ken Bigley's head off. I strongly suspect that any westerner is viewed by some as the enemy, and I'm convinced that those people would gleefully deem the slightest criticism of Islam to be an 'Act of War'. That is graphically illustrated by the disgusting images of madmen ranting for blood because someone drew a cartoon of the prophet!
In answer to your question, I have no idea how many are killed for apostasy. I can only hope those who commit that grievous sin live in a somewhat more civilised regime than that of Iran.
Finally (for the time being) I've told you before, you consistently make the mistake of assuming the people here are fools - but unfortunately for you most of them are not. Never doubt it.
Let's take this for example:
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Now I know you relate this to situations of war, but in that case, why doesn't the text command you simply to murder your enemies rather than specifically those who happen to be non-believers? I don't think there can be any way around that Koranic verse, Keyplus. It says what it says.
And following on from that, just what is fundamentalist Islam's interpretation of the word 'war'? The 9/11 bombers considered themselves at 'war' when they slaughtered 3000 innocent people in the name of Allah - as did those bloodthirsty barbarians who chopped poor Ken Bigley's head off. I strongly suspect that any westerner is viewed by some as the enemy, and I'm convinced that those people would gleefully deem the slightest criticism of Islam to be an 'Act of War'. That is graphically illustrated by the disgusting images of madmen ranting for blood because someone drew a cartoon of the prophet!
In answer to your question, I have no idea how many are killed for apostasy. I can only hope those who commit that grievous sin live in a somewhat more civilised regime than that of Iran.
Finally (for the time being) I've told you before, you consistently make the mistake of assuming the people here are fools - but unfortunately for you most of them are not. Never doubt it.
Ankou – Again, I have to respond otherwise propaganda goes on and on and on.
Naomi – No, my religion does not have ambiguity or contradiction. It’s just you do not understand and you can’t digest that fact. Otherwise why no one has so far killed 100K, or 10K or even 1K or even 100 out of those 6 million leaving Islam (according to you) each year only in Africa? So Please answer my question too.
OK, now let’s see the verse you have which according to you have no way around.
At least you accept that it was at war time. But what can I do if you have so short memory? You posted that “same verse on this same thread” at 08:20 on Sunday 2nd October 2011 (three days ago). And of course it was seconded soon after by Ratter (you might have emailed him to post and then you posted that yourself too) and I answered that at 09:19 on the same day. Although you did not agree with and that was OK, as I would be more worried if you would ever agree with me.
And finally, you do not need to tell brief me who is fool here and who is not as I do know very well.
Over to you.
Naomi – No, my religion does not have ambiguity or contradiction. It’s just you do not understand and you can’t digest that fact. Otherwise why no one has so far killed 100K, or 10K or even 1K or even 100 out of those 6 million leaving Islam (according to you) each year only in Africa? So Please answer my question too.
OK, now let’s see the verse you have which according to you have no way around.
At least you accept that it was at war time. But what can I do if you have so short memory? You posted that “same verse on this same thread” at 08:20 on Sunday 2nd October 2011 (three days ago). And of course it was seconded soon after by Ratter (you might have emailed him to post and then you posted that yourself too) and I answered that at 09:19 on the same day. Although you did not agree with and that was OK, as I would be more worried if you would ever agree with me.
And finally, you do not need to tell brief me who is fool here and who is not as I do know very well.
Over to you.
Keyplus, you are unbelievably paranoid!! What on earth possesses you to think that intelligent people would waste their time plotting against you? You really aren't that important - honesty you're not. And now you've added Ratter to your growing list of imaginary conspirators! A day or so back it was LazyGun, and of course Waldo's been there for years - a founder member I'd say - Wiz was there - and I think Mibs, Birdie and Chakka were also among the culprits too at some time - but I've lost track. Never mind, perhaps they'll all email me to jog my memory. Good grief!
Right. I've already answered your question. I said I don't know. I presume they live in a more civilised society than Iran.
Yes, I did post the same verse - in fact I've posted it several times before - but I've never asked the question I've asked here.
Tell me why that verse refers specifically to unbelievers rather than to enemies.
Right. I've already answered your question. I said I don't know. I presume they live in a more civilised society than Iran.
Yes, I did post the same verse - in fact I've posted it several times before - but I've never asked the question I've asked here.
Tell me why that verse refers specifically to unbelievers rather than to enemies.
lol @ Keyplus. You Naomis e mails me to give her support? :-) Keplus, I actually dont know Naomi any more than you, in fact you respond to her to far more than I ever do. I do however have great admiration for Naomis intelligence! I do not have any way of contacting Naomi other than on this site and vice-versa is also true.
Naomis has proven herself to far more intelligent than you and I put together!!
She makes you look silly over and over again but unfortunately you just dont see it!
Naomis has proven herself to far more intelligent than you and I put together!!
She makes you look silly over and over again but unfortunately you just dont see it!
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