Blooming Personalities C/D 30Th November
Quizzes & Puzzles63 mins ago
What did Judas Iscariot 'actually' betray?
32 Answers
ie. what were his MMO ?
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In the King James Translation, two different words are used that are translated 'betray'. One, in the Old Covenant from the Hebrew is "ramah" and infers deception and treacherous misleading... the other 17 times are used in the New Covenant from the Greek 'paradidōmi' and has much more of the sense of 'to give over to one's power or use... to deliver someone up to another's capture or custody'.
It's in this sense that all the reference's to Judas Iscariot's betrayal of Yeshua (Jesus) are used in the New Covenant...
Not sure what you mean bt MMO other than Modus Operandi (method of accomplishing something). In this case it was very simple. Judas was a thief, which indicates his mind-set. He not only hoped to benefit financially (which he did) but more importantly, Judas was of the belief that the Old Covenant taught that the coming Messiah would place Israel back in the front of the nations and restore her former glory... defeating and casting out the Romans. He probably hoped to force that issue by having Jesus captured believing that Jesus would continue to work his miracles and achieve Judas'(and others) goals.
A hint of this is found in Judas' actual title... Judas "the" Iscariot has many proposed theories as to its origins. One, is that Iscariot is derived from the Greek to Latin "sicarii", meaning an assassain... one who would have had the political goals in mind. Though the true Sicarrii's apparently didn't come into being until perhaps AD50, this theory still has adherents since in Hebrew, the name Iscariot can mean a man of murder, a hireling. The title Iscariot orginated as an Israeli name. The name Iscariot is most often used as a boy name or male name but also denotes a place "Kerioth". Perhaps it's simply an appendage identifying his home town...
Most theologians conclude his love of money and personal gain would have been the final 'trigger' to his betrayal.
(Many of the Romans, if not most and even many of the Sanhedrin (the ruling Jewish Council) didn't personally know Jesus and may not have not known what he looked like. hence the need for the identification in the garden, especially by dim torchlight).
It's in this sense that all the reference's to Judas Iscariot's betrayal of Yeshua (Jesus) are used in the New Covenant...
Not sure what you mean bt MMO other than Modus Operandi (method of accomplishing something). In this case it was very simple. Judas was a thief, which indicates his mind-set. He not only hoped to benefit financially (which he did) but more importantly, Judas was of the belief that the Old Covenant taught that the coming Messiah would place Israel back in the front of the nations and restore her former glory... defeating and casting out the Romans. He probably hoped to force that issue by having Jesus captured believing that Jesus would continue to work his miracles and achieve Judas'(and others) goals.
A hint of this is found in Judas' actual title... Judas "the" Iscariot has many proposed theories as to its origins. One, is that Iscariot is derived from the Greek to Latin "sicarii", meaning an assassain... one who would have had the political goals in mind. Though the true Sicarrii's apparently didn't come into being until perhaps AD50, this theory still has adherents since in Hebrew, the name Iscariot can mean a man of murder, a hireling. The title Iscariot orginated as an Israeli name. The name Iscariot is most often used as a boy name or male name but also denotes a place "Kerioth". Perhaps it's simply an appendage identifying his home town...
Most theologians conclude his love of money and personal gain would have been the final 'trigger' to his betrayal.
(Many of the Romans, if not most and even many of the Sanhedrin (the ruling Jewish Council) didn't personally know Jesus and may not have not known what he looked like. hence the need for the identification in the garden, especially by dim torchlight).
Clanad.
He did it for the money yes, but why? you've established his opportunity, but what were his means of doing so?
The synoptic gospels say Matthew 'just for the money' say, luke says, the 'devil was in him' and Mark says nothing.
Even the gospel of Judas explains more than these three do but again, what were his means?
He did it for the money yes, but why? you've established his opportunity, but what were his means of doing so?
The synoptic gospels say Matthew 'just for the money' say, luke says, the 'devil was in him' and Mark says nothing.
Even the gospel of Judas explains more than these three do but again, what were his means?
It's mportant to the discussion to understand the 'The Gospel of Judas' is a late writing... very late... around AD160-AD170. One source of scholars points out "...The Gospel of Judas falls into the category of pseudepigraphal writings. This means that the gospel is not authentic, it is a false writing. In fact, the gospel was not written by Judas, but by a later Gnostic sect in support of Judas. Gnositicsm was an ancient heresy that taught salvation through esoteric knowledge. Gnosticism was known at the time of the writing of the later epistles in the New Testament and was rejected by the apostle John..."
The ancient writer Irenaeus (130 - 202 AD), in his work called Refutation of All Heresies, said that the gospel of Judas was a fictitious history.
That aside, The Gospel writers clearly set out the raison d'etre for Judas action. As to his means... he simply kissed Yeshua on the cheek to identify him to the authorities (Matthew 26:50, Luke 22:48), unless you're asking something that I'm not understanding, for which I apologize if true...
The ancient writer Irenaeus (130 - 202 AD), in his work called Refutation of All Heresies, said that the gospel of Judas was a fictitious history.
That aside, The Gospel writers clearly set out the raison d'etre for Judas action. As to his means... he simply kissed Yeshua on the cheek to identify him to the authorities (Matthew 26:50, Luke 22:48), unless you're asking something that I'm not understanding, for which I apologize if true...
Clanad, the problem is all the writings are 'late' writings, and all have been altered many times. None were written by eye-witnesses, and therefore none can be deemed 'authentic'. All we can do is try to separate the wheat from the chaff - but when we do, my wheat becomes your chaff - and vice versa. Personally I think there’s potentially much more to the story of Jesus than theologians would have us believe – but then I don’t examine it with a pre-conceived agenda or from a religious viewpoint.
Clanad.
OK yes Judas Gospel was pseudepigraphal. So is most of the new and old testament. It certainly did not fall from the sky soon after Jesus was crucified. Far from it. In fact Eusebius' writings were still young as the Bible was not completed into a single volume until centuries after.
What we need to look at is John the Baptist. What was he doing, he was preparing people, for what? Mark 9.1 and Mark 13.30 start us to think in the right direction especially their generation. What message was Jesus spreading? In fact Paul and the other disciples? That God would soon intervene and take down the enemy and all (that generation) would then live in paradise...
All apocalypticist prophets regarding Mark 9.1/13.30 and all were killed, apart from one! The one who didn't believe in the words Jesus was spreading. In fact Jesus got it very wrong, we are all alive 2000ish years after his message of 'thy kingdom come'....
OK yes Judas Gospel was pseudepigraphal. So is most of the new and old testament. It certainly did not fall from the sky soon after Jesus was crucified. Far from it. In fact Eusebius' writings were still young as the Bible was not completed into a single volume until centuries after.
What we need to look at is John the Baptist. What was he doing, he was preparing people, for what? Mark 9.1 and Mark 13.30 start us to think in the right direction especially their generation. What message was Jesus spreading? In fact Paul and the other disciples? That God would soon intervene and take down the enemy and all (that generation) would then live in paradise...
All apocalypticist prophets regarding Mark 9.1/13.30 and all were killed, apart from one! The one who didn't believe in the words Jesus was spreading. In fact Jesus got it very wrong, we are all alive 2000ish years after his message of 'thy kingdom come'....
Whereas two contradictory NT accounts of how Judas met his end (Matthew 27 suicide vs Acts 1, fell over and burst) are absolutely fine and dandy, of course...
The fact is that Judas's so called betrayal is an essential part of the plot. He has no free will in this (clear from the fact that Jesus forsees it) and fulfils Biblical prophesy by carrying it out. It's hardly an exageration to say that without Judas, there would be no Christian faith, because Jesus' death is a necessary blood sacrifice (if you are the sort of primitive who believes that blood sacrifice is even vaguely justified).
Of course, as with so much Christian theology, there are a great many opinions on this. Yet another example of the Bible being such a great document that even its adherants cannot agree what is actually meant.
It's like it's just a dodgy old folk myth, isn't it?
The fact is that Judas's so called betrayal is an essential part of the plot. He has no free will in this (clear from the fact that Jesus forsees it) and fulfils Biblical prophesy by carrying it out. It's hardly an exageration to say that without Judas, there would be no Christian faith, because Jesus' death is a necessary blood sacrifice (if you are the sort of primitive who believes that blood sacrifice is even vaguely justified).
Of course, as with so much Christian theology, there are a great many opinions on this. Yet another example of the Bible being such a great document that even its adherants cannot agree what is actually meant.
It's like it's just a dodgy old folk myth, isn't it?
Naomi24,
Hello once again!
Yes you are correct. No eye witnesses, if fact all the gospels were written decades after what had happened. There are over 500 NT gospels all differing from one another, so which ones do we use for the 'word of God', and add to the bible?
Jesus a Palestine Aramaic speaking Jew, along with his followers, and we only have Greek versions of the gospels. If "God" wanted us to have his word, surely he would of given it to his people an a language they could understand. Being in Greek we are already one step removed from the originals and since 95%ish of Jesus' region of where he preached were illiterate, well, thats another story......
Hello once again!
Yes you are correct. No eye witnesses, if fact all the gospels were written decades after what had happened. There are over 500 NT gospels all differing from one another, so which ones do we use for the 'word of God', and add to the bible?
Jesus a Palestine Aramaic speaking Jew, along with his followers, and we only have Greek versions of the gospels. If "God" wanted us to have his word, surely he would of given it to his people an a language they could understand. Being in Greek we are already one step removed from the originals and since 95%ish of Jesus' region of where he preached were illiterate, well, thats another story......
Naomi24,
Studying, reading Stoic Philosophy, working, etc.. In fact I have something to bring to your attention that you'll like. Could you email me, instead of me posting it here: [email protected]
Studying, reading Stoic Philosophy, working, etc.. In fact I have something to bring to your attention that you'll like. Could you email me, instead of me posting it here: [email protected]
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