The Perils Of Privatisation - Part X
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Why are people that have lost their religion or don't believe in god so interested in religion?
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I use quite a few sites and it's interesting to see that those who once were religious and aren't no more or those that don't believe in god have a lot to say on the subject. Me if i don't believe in something and have no interest in it especially if i see it as a web of lies, full of hatred and something that i wasted too much of my life on, i would be happy to never talk about it again, or are those that don't believe in god maybe have a tiny atoms weight of belief hence their constant interest on the matter, something that they cannot completely shun as it's a tiny flame that refuses to go out? Also those that don't believe in god seem to poo poo religious lots who force their views down non religious peoples throats yet the anti-god brigade do exactly the same in reverse, constantly trying to discredit and foist their non beliefs down religious peoples throats.
What do you make of this?
What do you make of this?
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Yes i do trust wiki enough for me to have got the information and then cross referenced it with the book of genesis using many sources to confirm it's credentuals. This time as usual the information was right but as i said everything is checked, rechecked and checked again before me submitting to others.
Baldric if you're going to be so paranoid then why trust anything on the net? It's all written and typed by humans or computers manipulated my computers and anything and everything is subject to change and attack from hackers.
Baldric if you're going to be so paranoid then why trust anything on the net? It's all written and typed by humans or computers manipulated my computers and anything and everything is subject to change and attack from hackers.
I have never been religious and don't force my views down the throats of others. If they don't want to read then they can ignore my posts.
Nor is my attitude about pooh poohing the values of the religious for the sake of it not to apease some sense of denies belief.
I believe it is vitally important to point out that the fundamental values of the Abrahamic religions are very closely aligned with deeply ingrained prejudices and perpetuate these values. Only when these values are exposed for hat they are have we any hope of adopting a sophisticated sense of morality free of the primitive values encompassed by these religions.
Those who try to silence the voice of atheists by attempting to shame them into tolerating the fascist values of religion are pathetic indeed.
Nor is my attitude about pooh poohing the values of the religious for the sake of it not to apease some sense of denies belief.
I believe it is vitally important to point out that the fundamental values of the Abrahamic religions are very closely aligned with deeply ingrained prejudices and perpetuate these values. Only when these values are exposed for hat they are have we any hope of adopting a sophisticated sense of morality free of the primitive values encompassed by these religions.
Those who try to silence the voice of atheists by attempting to shame them into tolerating the fascist values of religion are pathetic indeed.
I suspect for a couple of people I have known who have lost their faith that they discuss it so much becasue at one point they really did believe and there is an element of something lost there, Marcus Brigstock (I've spelt his name wrong I think) wrote a very good book about this sort of thing. I think there is an anger that they believed and do feel a bit duped but also a disappointment. Personally, I was raised a catholic but I never believed and was generally just 'bored' in church so I never lost my religion or faith, you can't lose something you never had so I'm not particularly emotional about it. Nor am I that interested in persuading others that what they believe in is a pile of gobbldey gook as it is my opinion that an atheist with never change the mind of a non-believer and a non-believer will ever change the mind of an athiest; I also suspect that to do so would be for me to try and use the same control and wordings that religion has used over the years and I'm not keen to be a part of that. People come to their own conclusions usually after some big event that started them questioning in the first place and I generally think the nicest thing you can do is answer questions if asked but otherwise just be a friend in that instance, I don't think that it is something I would like to influence people in too much either way.
I don't really care if people wish to be religious but I don't want it in schools or politics. I think in an ideal world it would be best if a child could make a choice having learnt all about the different alternatives (religious or non-religious) and make a decision at an appropriate age about what exactly they wish to believe or not believe in. But since this is a very unlikely scenario then I'm happy to leave people to it as long as it is not forced upon me in any way. (Other people going to church or believing in something or talking about a religious event they attended in general terms or saying 'God bless' as I say goodbye is not forcing their belief on me in my opinion).
I have grown to very much dislike organised religion (well it's not difficult really) and I would love for it to all just go. But I suspect that if I got my wish then something else would take it's place. It seems to me that the human race is a long way off disregarding religion completely, maybe it never will be able to entirely. But until then, the one religious teaching I did always like was 'do unto others that you would have them do to you'... personally that just sounds like common sense to me but I think it's a pretty good way to live your life in a very general term.
I don't really care if people wish to be religious but I don't want it in schools or politics. I think in an ideal world it would be best if a child could make a choice having learnt all about the different alternatives (religious or non-religious) and make a decision at an appropriate age about what exactly they wish to believe or not believe in. But since this is a very unlikely scenario then I'm happy to leave people to it as long as it is not forced upon me in any way. (Other people going to church or believing in something or talking about a religious event they attended in general terms or saying 'God bless' as I say goodbye is not forcing their belief on me in my opinion).
I have grown to very much dislike organised religion (well it's not difficult really) and I would love for it to all just go. But I suspect that if I got my wish then something else would take it's place. It seems to me that the human race is a long way off disregarding religion completely, maybe it never will be able to entirely. But until then, the one religious teaching I did always like was 'do unto others that you would have them do to you'... personally that just sounds like common sense to me but I think it's a pretty good way to live your life in a very general term.
for the ones who have lost thèir faith, id think whatver caused it has left a nasty taste in their mouths... anger that they wqsted their time and that they were sucked in... they perhaps then feel a desire to destroy that and to stop others getting sucked in.
the ones who have never been religious, see the pain and suffering that happens in its name and are incredulous at the bizarre stories that people believe really happened- things that anyone claiming it nowadays would be locked up in an asylum - or ridiculed ... it has hqppened many times ... there are so many discrepancies, irrational beliefs...tye list is huge that its hard to believe how people in this age can fal for it ... anyone with the power to change the world iin this way, is interesting... in the same way it amazes us that hitler was able to make an entire nation obey him commit some of the worst atrocities ever blindly and willingly.... it isinteresting...
the ones who have never been religious, see the pain and suffering that happens in its name and are incredulous at the bizarre stories that people believe really happened- things that anyone claiming it nowadays would be locked up in an asylum - or ridiculed ... it has hqppened many times ... there are so many discrepancies, irrational beliefs...tye list is huge that its hard to believe how people in this age can fal for it ... anyone with the power to change the world iin this way, is interesting... in the same way it amazes us that hitler was able to make an entire nation obey him commit some of the worst atrocities ever blindly and willingly.... it isinteresting...
I was never religious and therefore hadn't much 'faith' to lose. It's not as though I'd been a Jesuit or devout protestant. The subject doesn't raise any strong emotion. But I am interested in it in the same way that I'm interested in psycopathy, or the habits of baboons, or American politics, or anything else that happens to catch my fancy.
It is interesting that humanity seems to have evolved to have religion, and that people still find comfort in it, notwithstanding that their hopes of any god or gods assisting or guiding them or, for example, allowing the death of one child sibling but not the other in a tornado, are so often not fulifilled. And, as to facts which their religion requires them to believe and practices which it expects them to follow, these so often deny any logical or rational explanation, yet adherents accept them. Surely that all makes a subject to arouse curiosity in anybody of an enquiring mind?
But where some religious person raises the subject, claiming that their belief has to be held in all its particulars and should govern me specifically or non-believers generally, I'll be among the first to object.
It is interesting that humanity seems to have evolved to have religion, and that people still find comfort in it, notwithstanding that their hopes of any god or gods assisting or guiding them or, for example, allowing the death of one child sibling but not the other in a tornado, are so often not fulifilled. And, as to facts which their religion requires them to believe and practices which it expects them to follow, these so often deny any logical or rational explanation, yet adherents accept them. Surely that all makes a subject to arouse curiosity in anybody of an enquiring mind?
But where some religious person raises the subject, claiming that their belief has to be held in all its particulars and should govern me specifically or non-believers generally, I'll be among the first to object.
I agree with Joko, but there is another point, that I cannot understand.
Lets take the Abramic religions, they all belive in god yet there interpretation of the "word" of god is differen, not only is it different for some, its different enough to kill for?
However they all laugh at other religions and vica versa. Why? If there was a god whoever is wrong will be in the same boat as us atheists.
Yet those of faith not only insist there is a god but there god is the right god, that in itself isn't rational.
Lets take the Abramic religions, they all belive in god yet there interpretation of the "word" of god is differen, not only is it different for some, its different enough to kill for?
However they all laugh at other religions and vica versa. Why? If there was a god whoever is wrong will be in the same boat as us atheists.
Yet those of faith not only insist there is a god but there god is the right god, that in itself isn't rational.
I don’t ‘try’ to discredit religion. That suggests willful deceit – an entirely unnecessary strategy. Organised religion, if studied without pre-conceived ideas, does a very worthy job of discrediting itself.
Although I can’t be sure, I get the impression that I have a rather different slant on atheism than most of the other atheists here. I don’t believe I’ve ever denied the possible, although, in my opinion, highly unlikely, existence of a creator God, and I have certainly never denied that man possesses an innate sense of spirituality – but having studied the ‘evidence’ we have for the God of Abraham, I am convinced that this is not the Almighty Creator – and that, in my view, is the issue we should be discussing. Jews, Christians, and Muslims alike, believe in a creator that wasn’t.
Although I was raised a Christian, there is no question of ‘a tiny flame that refuses to go out’ existing within me, and the reason I continue to take an interest in religion is because it affects all our lives – whether we want it to or not. Additionally, and more importantly, as a thinking human being, I cannot ignore the suffering of children born into poverty and with horrendous diseases because the Church refuses to sanction the use of condoms; I cannot ignore the misery of females subjugated and mutilated because Islam deems them lesser creatures than men; I cannot ignore the plight of child brides, or the fear of children taught from birth that they are sinners who must abandon their precious intellect completely or risk going to hell; and neither can I ignore the fact that young people in the 21st century western world are taught, without determined and robust opposition, demonstrably inaccurate information emanating from the appalling superstition of the Dark Ages. All of this is simply morally wrong.
The Old Testament is a fascinating document full of history, fanciful tales, riddles and unanswered questions – the New, a concoction of myth, lies, and wishful thinking – and the Koran a blatant plagiarism – and the sooner the people who live by these books realise that and have the courage to reclaim their senses and abandon their futile, selfish quest to save their own sorry souls, the better for the world.
Incidentally, I suspect that you may have been on AB before under a different name?
Although I can’t be sure, I get the impression that I have a rather different slant on atheism than most of the other atheists here. I don’t believe I’ve ever denied the possible, although, in my opinion, highly unlikely, existence of a creator God, and I have certainly never denied that man possesses an innate sense of spirituality – but having studied the ‘evidence’ we have for the God of Abraham, I am convinced that this is not the Almighty Creator – and that, in my view, is the issue we should be discussing. Jews, Christians, and Muslims alike, believe in a creator that wasn’t.
Although I was raised a Christian, there is no question of ‘a tiny flame that refuses to go out’ existing within me, and the reason I continue to take an interest in religion is because it affects all our lives – whether we want it to or not. Additionally, and more importantly, as a thinking human being, I cannot ignore the suffering of children born into poverty and with horrendous diseases because the Church refuses to sanction the use of condoms; I cannot ignore the misery of females subjugated and mutilated because Islam deems them lesser creatures than men; I cannot ignore the plight of child brides, or the fear of children taught from birth that they are sinners who must abandon their precious intellect completely or risk going to hell; and neither can I ignore the fact that young people in the 21st century western world are taught, without determined and robust opposition, demonstrably inaccurate information emanating from the appalling superstition of the Dark Ages. All of this is simply morally wrong.
The Old Testament is a fascinating document full of history, fanciful tales, riddles and unanswered questions – the New, a concoction of myth, lies, and wishful thinking – and the Koran a blatant plagiarism – and the sooner the people who live by these books realise that and have the courage to reclaim their senses and abandon their futile, selfish quest to save their own sorry souls, the better for the world.
Incidentally, I suspect that you may have been on AB before under a different name?
////Ratter - Religion is responsible for deaths around the world on a daily basis, usually carried out my Muslims but no religion is innocent of these crimes.////
Sounds to me that you are just about 20 years old at the most because that as far you can remember.
////Ratter - and im guessing that you are a muslim and will now be joining the like of Sith and Keyplus and probably spend hours copying and pasting quotes from the Bible to prove a point.///
Tell you one thing and surely that will increase your knowledge. Muslims do not copy and paste from Bible to prove their point. You see I told you something new that you did not know. And that again tells me that you might only be about 20 years old. Although you lol it when someone pointed so that is a good sign as you are willing to accept if you are wrong. So keep doing the right stuff.
Sounds to me that you are just about 20 years old at the most because that as far you can remember.
////Ratter - and im guessing that you are a muslim and will now be joining the like of Sith and Keyplus and probably spend hours copying and pasting quotes from the Bible to prove a point.///
Tell you one thing and surely that will increase your knowledge. Muslims do not copy and paste from Bible to prove their point. You see I told you something new that you did not know. And that again tells me that you might only be about 20 years old. Although you lol it when someone pointed so that is a good sign as you are willing to accept if you are wrong. So keep doing the right stuff.
1. I'm interested in religious belief.
2. I like arguing.
3. I enjoy the human interaction.
4. Some correspondents (intentionally or otherwise) amuse me.
5. I occasionally learn things.
I plead guilty to your charge of verbosity, but deny the charge of foisting my views on the religious. I wouldn't dream of approaching any religious person and attacking their beliefs. But Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons knocking on my door, and anybody who subscribes to an R&S thread on AB all seem to me fair game. In return I'm perfectly prepared to have my world view criticised. My disappointment by and large is thst the level of debate on the other side is not higher. They can barely muster a scratch side, as St. Aloysius of the Lower Falls said.
2. I like arguing.
3. I enjoy the human interaction.
4. Some correspondents (intentionally or otherwise) amuse me.
5. I occasionally learn things.
I plead guilty to your charge of verbosity, but deny the charge of foisting my views on the religious. I wouldn't dream of approaching any religious person and attacking their beliefs. But Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons knocking on my door, and anybody who subscribes to an R&S thread on AB all seem to me fair game. In return I'm perfectly prepared to have my world view criticised. My disappointment by and large is thst the level of debate on the other side is not higher. They can barely muster a scratch side, as St. Aloysius of the Lower Falls said.
If you want people to be left alone to experience their chosen fictional deity as they please, tell 'em to get their grubby mitts off other people's right to a decent education, a woman's right to autonomy over her own body or people's ability to love whom they choose. Stop blowing people up, or their medical facilities. Stop murdering people who like a different fictional deity. Stop refusing essential drugs to people unless they accept your rules about how to have sex. Stop refusing medical care to people because a sky fairy doesn't like it.
To quote a cliche, "Your rights stop where mine begin."
To quote a cliche, "Your rights stop where mine begin."
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