Believers: Is there anything in the Bible/Koran that you don't believe...

[naomi24]

.... and if so, what is it?

[keyplus90]

Modeller – Quran was not revealed in an hour or so. It was revealed over almost 23 years. Why another witness was not present is for a simple reason that other witness was not or would not have been a prophet. Copies of the original Quran are still available to this date and there are no versions. Then one thing that separate Quran from any other book in the world (let alone religious scriptures) is that since day one there have been people who learnt Quran by heart and Muhammad (pbuh) used to recite (by heart) Complete Quran (as much had been revealed until then) during every month of Ramazan (aka Ramadhan) apart from daily recitation or bit and pieces. During last Ramazan of his life he recited it twice because until then Quran revelation had been completed. And this tradition is going on since then and as we are going through Ramazan so why not pop in to your local mosque and see for yourself where you would see after night prayers that people recite Quran by heart. There are millions of people in this world who know it by heart word to word. If for any reason writings disappear from all of the books in the world then Quran is the ONLY BOOK that can be written back word to word. And no other religion or holder of the book can claim that.

In the end I appreciate too that after all you are saying what you believe or not believe in and listening to the others belief in a positive way unlike few other atheists here.

[Mick-Talbot]

I love it the 5000 peeps were fed with only five loaves of bread and two fish

And ..... there was left overs for the disciples.... brilliant.

[Mick-Talbot]

That not the ^

[modeller]

keyplus I have been in mosques and in the homes of Muslim friends but I felt that their recitation was lacking in true feeling a bit like Christians saying the Lords Prayer. It is like chanting they are just words in fact just sounds. I have seen the boys in Madrasas saying the words whilst idly looking around the room.

I feel this learning by rote does nothing in any religion to get over the meaning of the words . It's like reading poetry without emotion .

I know the Quaran was added too over many years but Muhamads (pbuh)
sessions were each of short duration. Some of the later Surah appear to contradict the earlier ones . It doesn't help of course them not being written chronologically so it is difficult to relate them to an actual event which might explain the apparent contradiction.

#Why another witness was not present is for a simple reason that other witness was not or would not have been a prophet.#
I don't see the logic in the Bible or the Quaran of this . If God wants the world to know his message why not proclaim it to the world . By all means let the prophets repeat the message but initially the more people who hear it the better and the faster that message will be spread.

[jomifl]

Modeller, there is no point in trying to reason with keyplus, he is not here for rational discussion, he is here for something else. We are still working on what that is. If you have any ideas as to what he is here for please post them up on R&S.

[vetuste_ennemi]

"Keyplus" was created by Mossad to discredit Islam.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, Don’t believe everything your teachers tell you. An imam at one of the most respected mosques in existence told me that they kept a record of the names of every Muslim in the world. Whether he thought I was naïve, or whether he was unfamiliar with life on the rest of the planet and really believed what he was saying can only be a matter of conjecture – but his claim was very clearly utter nonsense. Nevertheless, I suspect the faithful thronging to that great centre of learning take him, without question, at his word – just as you take your teachers, without question, at their word.

Back to the Koran. The earliest copies in existence are incomplete – and they do not date from the time of Mohammed whose originally recorded deliberations, written on stones, leaves, etc., have long since disappeared. Doubt exists regarding the source of these fragmented documents, but that aside, the Koran has been altered since it was first collated years after Mohammed’s death, not least by the removal of the highly embarrassing Satanic Verses. It is true, however, that many Muslims memorise the Koran as it stands today.

Islam is a circular argument. Mohammed is a prophet because the Koran says so – and the Koran is the word of God because its author, Mohammed, says so.

Jom, shortly after Keyplus first came to AB, he told us why he is here. To show us the way. Now you know.

VE, //"Keyplus" was created by Mossad to discredit Islam.//

That is precisely what he is succeeding in doing. I’ve been telling him that for years – but he doesn’t seem to believe me, and so he continues.

[modeller]

keyhole I should mention that repetition of the Quaran is a form of hypnosis .The words become meaningless, .The purpose is to exercise power over the recipient who in that receptive state is open to any suggestion that is introduced.
The word or words that are repeated are known as a Mantra. All religions use it in various forms in RC its the Gregorian Chants . The Trancendental Meditation method is used to induce a deeper level of consciousness . The practice of chanting the words of the Quran is a perfect example of this technique. As you know every one of the 114 Surahs. begin with the same groups of words '" In the name of Allah the most merciful, the most kind ." It's no coincidence that very many would be terrorists spent time in a Madrasa. The rocking backwards and forwards in the Madrasas reinforces this hypnotic effect.
That's why the Jews do it at the wailing wall.
A similar thing happened in Israel the Zionist terrorists were 'educated ' in Zion schools using a Mantra method.

[keyplus90]

Thank you.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, I truly believe you haven’t considered a single word that anyone here has said. Okay. Ask yourself this. Why is it that only Muslims like you, who have never investigated anything much outside of their religion, believe not only the science of the Koran, but that the original version of that book still exists and hasn’t been altered in any way? Reputable historians and scientists – Muslim or otherwise - who are prepared to corroborate your beliefs are non-existent. Why? Doesn’t that tell you something?

[keyplus90]

Thank you again.

[naomi24]

Sad, truly sad.

[sandyRoe]

I admit I've had a few sleepless night mulling over John 20:25. It's hard to believe that Doubting Thomas really had misgivings about the Resurrection.
Apart from that, all else is acceptable.

[mikey4444]

The feeding of the multitude always puzzled me.....what Jewish person wouldn't use caterers ?

[keyplus90]

You must be sad Naomi, You are bound to be because people who do not believe in God usually are sad people although they believe that they are happy. But usually you do not find until later what it really was.

Sandy, after looking at your avatar, I thought for a minute that you might have converted to Islam.

[vetuste_ennemi]

What verse in the Koran forbids women to take part in sport?

[vetuste_ennemi]

.. from taking part in... gamma minus, must do better, VE.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, I’d be interested to see the statistics that support that, but an interesting philosophy. So is me thinking I’m happy when really I'm sad a bit like Moses and Jesus thinking they were Jews when really they were Muslims?