Shopping & Style2 mins ago
It's warm in here - innit
53 Answers
I do beleive that this is my first posting in this section .
It does appear to be very heated in here at times - in fact one could almost do without the central heating being turned on .
It also appears that most of the ' discussions ' seem to be between those in one corner who beleive in a higher being who created the universe and those in the opposing corner who do not beleive in any higher being - but rather that the universe came into existence at the big bang - i.e before that there was nothing .
Is that about right ?
It does appear to be very heated in here at times - in fact one could almost do without the central heating being turned on .
It also appears that most of the ' discussions ' seem to be between those in one corner who beleive in a higher being who created the universe and those in the opposing corner who do not beleive in any higher being - but rather that the universe came into existence at the big bang - i.e before that there was nothing .
Is that about right ?
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There is a big problem with holding to a fundamentalist worldview, derived from a holy book, be it a bible or the koran, and that is that they are inflexible, unable to adapt to changing cultural mores, they promote divisiveness, they are often anti-scientific, and are an unwanted and additional cause for hatred and the crimes perpetrated by holding such a xenophobic worldview.
Most of the more sophisticated believers now accept that such books should be considered more as a kind of communal guide to life, and are quite happy to recognise that many of the key narratives within the bible are just that- stories.
If you have a fundamentalist view of the bible, or the koran for that matter, then you likely believe as cold hard fact the following.
1.Creation myth. Supernatural entity magicked everthing into being, over a period of 6 days, then took a day off - and this was all done less than 10,000 years ago.
2. Virgin Birth - Belief that a woman can be impregnated by the spirit of god, fertilised without any biological organic donation, which flies in the face of everything we know about conception.
3. Adam and Eve. All humans are derived from just 2 individuals.
4.Dinosaurs co-existed with Man . God created the Flintstones, basically.
5. The solar system is geocentric, rather than, as we now know, heliocentric.
6. Noahs Ark - god created all the millions upon millions of species, raised a great flood as retribution against everyone and everything, but some were saved - 2 of a kind of every species, looked after by just 4 adults - and for some species, 7 were allowed - or something.
7. The idea of an eternal soul. Basically, our bodies are just biological robots, piloted by some ethereal being that sloughs off the body when it dies and goes and does- something.Forever. Which runs into all sorts of philosophical,logical and biological problems.
And of course this is completely forgetting all the other reasons why the bible should not be held up as some sort of final word on truth - selective editing, made up gospels,Leviticus and the Apocrypha.....
If the notion of a god, some sort of supernatural entity benevolently looking out for us and you in particular gives you some measure of comfort as you travel lifes highway, thats great - just don't evangelise, do not reject proper facts for stone age narratives, don't discriminate on grounds of gender or sexual orientation and we can all get along just fine....
Most of the more sophisticated believers now accept that such books should be considered more as a kind of communal guide to life, and are quite happy to recognise that many of the key narratives within the bible are just that- stories.
If you have a fundamentalist view of the bible, or the koran for that matter, then you likely believe as cold hard fact the following.
1.Creation myth. Supernatural entity magicked everthing into being, over a period of 6 days, then took a day off - and this was all done less than 10,000 years ago.
2. Virgin Birth - Belief that a woman can be impregnated by the spirit of god, fertilised without any biological organic donation, which flies in the face of everything we know about conception.
3. Adam and Eve. All humans are derived from just 2 individuals.
4.Dinosaurs co-existed with Man . God created the Flintstones, basically.
5. The solar system is geocentric, rather than, as we now know, heliocentric.
6. Noahs Ark - god created all the millions upon millions of species, raised a great flood as retribution against everyone and everything, but some were saved - 2 of a kind of every species, looked after by just 4 adults - and for some species, 7 were allowed - or something.
7. The idea of an eternal soul. Basically, our bodies are just biological robots, piloted by some ethereal being that sloughs off the body when it dies and goes and does- something.Forever. Which runs into all sorts of philosophical,logical and biological problems.
And of course this is completely forgetting all the other reasons why the bible should not be held up as some sort of final word on truth - selective editing, made up gospels,Leviticus and the Apocrypha.....
If the notion of a god, some sort of supernatural entity benevolently looking out for us and you in particular gives you some measure of comfort as you travel lifes highway, thats great - just don't evangelise, do not reject proper facts for stone age narratives, don't discriminate on grounds of gender or sexual orientation and we can all get along just fine....
//If the notion of a god, some sort of supernatural entity benevolently looking out for us and you in particular gives you some measure of comfort as you travel lifes highway, thats great - just don't evangelise, do not reject proper facts for stone age narratives, don't discriminate on grounds of gender or sexual orientation and we can all get along just fine.... //
Who is the - ''and you in particular '' directed at ?
Who is the - ''and you in particular '' directed at ?
You have it all wrong LaxyGun, this is how creation happened.
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@ Olly - Yep, you are right - some creationists have a belief in an old earth model. And one of their arguments is that each day mentioned in genesis actually represents a geological age, which is neat and all.
What do you think it means? Do you think such a model means the bible is infallible, or prophetic, or is proof of anything?
What do you think it means? Do you think such a model means the bible is infallible, or prophetic, or is proof of anything?
Hello LazyGun
What it means is that people cannot read. By that I mean people say silly things like Cain and Able must have committed incest and if they read on they would discover that when Cain fled because he had murdered his brother he went to the land of Nod where there were loads of people who were building a walled city, playing the harp and the flute and working in iron and bronze etc.
The days of the hunter gatherer were long gone, Cain was a farmer and Able was a shepherd. This was the Bronze Age and there were tribes and nations across the world.
So I always smile when people say Cain and Able must have committed incest. The same problem exists among Christians as well, so don't worry. :-)
What it means is that people cannot read. By that I mean people say silly things like Cain and Able must have committed incest and if they read on they would discover that when Cain fled because he had murdered his brother he went to the land of Nod where there were loads of people who were building a walled city, playing the harp and the flute and working in iron and bronze etc.
The days of the hunter gatherer were long gone, Cain was a farmer and Able was a shepherd. This was the Bronze Age and there were tribes and nations across the world.
So I always smile when people say Cain and Able must have committed incest. The same problem exists among Christians as well, so don't worry. :-)
A geological era is not a day and in Hebrew 'yom' can mean a period of time. In this case unfortunately it was translated as day which has caused a lot of misunderstanding ever since.
In the same vein the Bible begins with the creation account which was billions of years ago and then when writing was invented they started to record their history beginning about BC 5000. Seeing as Neanderthal man couldn't write there had to be a gap, it stands to reason really. Unfortunately people think it is a continuous account and this is what throws the YEC people but if you think about it there is no way that could happen. :-)
In the same vein the Bible begins with the creation account which was billions of years ago and then when writing was invented they started to record their history beginning about BC 5000. Seeing as Neanderthal man couldn't write there had to be a gap, it stands to reason really. Unfortunately people think it is a continuous account and this is what throws the YEC people but if you think about it there is no way that could happen. :-)
@Olly.
I am particularly exercised at Young Earth Creationists, with their ridiculous ideas that contradict scientific facts and evidence.If I interpret your comments correctly, you would describe yourself as an old earth creationist?
You still seem reluctant to explicitly state your position. Are we to take it from the link you offered and your comments, that you believe in the creation story as described in the bible? And, as a second question, do you believe the age of the earth is 4.5 billion years, give or take a few million?
I am particularly exercised at Young Earth Creationists, with their ridiculous ideas that contradict scientific facts and evidence.If I interpret your comments correctly, you would describe yourself as an old earth creationist?
You still seem reluctant to explicitly state your position. Are we to take it from the link you offered and your comments, that you believe in the creation story as described in the bible? And, as a second question, do you believe the age of the earth is 4.5 billion years, give or take a few million?
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