Why Doesn’T Islam Educate Its Men?

[naomi24]

Two items in the news this week that, once again, highlight Islam’s archaic attitudes towards women and its continuing tolerance of the failings of men. First, the appalling story of the Saudi cleric who brutally raped and murdered his five year old daughter – and was excused with a fine - and second, the instance of another Saudi cleric who says that all female babies should be hidden under burkas in order to ward off sex attacks.

Islam’s stance appears to be that, faced with temptation, men are helpless victims, and its solution, therefore, is to remove that temptation by hiding females from view. Rather than requiring men to accept full responsibility for their own licentious and inexcusable behaviour, isn’t it time that Islam stopped justifying the subjugation of women by acknowledging that the fault rests not with the female, but with its own attitudes towards them?

[boxtops]

Naomi, I agree with you. The concept that women have to cover because otherwise the sight of a naked arm or leg would inflame men's sexual instincts says far more about their view of men's lack of self-control, than the fact that it's the woman's fault she's so alluring.

[chakka35]

Good one, naomi. Let's hope yo get some intelligent answers from our Muslim friends.

[VHG]

It was not that long ago that we treated women badly in this country so we are in no position to gloat. It may not have been as bad as some of these rapes and other attacks but women in the UK were certainly kept "under the thumb".

For example the writer Beatrix Potter was somewhat of an expert of fungi and mushrooms etc.

She wanted to give a talk at a scientific institution in London but only men were allowed to present.

So a man gave her presentation while she sat in the audience a listened.

How demeanng is that!

And this was only about 100 years ago in this country.

p.s. We have our fair share of rapes and attacks in this country. What about the 16 year old girl who was killed in Blackpool last weekend. Stabbed in the face and head and then the person tried to set alight to her.

Suggest we worry about our country first.

[RATTER15]

I think Muslim men are educated, they are educated by the Quran, it teaches them that women are worthless and their Sharia laws back them on this. It wont change any-time soon that is for certain.

Any faith or culture that approves or condones any act of paedophilia is sick to the very core!!!

[RATTER15]

VHG, I agree we have problems here but lets not tolerate any more of these filthy Muslim perverts coming in to our country.

[naomi24]

I don't think VHG understands the question.

[bibblebub]

Are there any religions that aren't run by men? Any concessions to women are made belatedly and very grudgingly.

[Canary42]

Rewarding suicide bombers with 70 virgins in heaven says it all really about the muslim clerics' attitude to women - mere chattels for male gratification.

[honeydip]

These stories are remote and are nothing but scaremongering and islamaphobia to be honest. There are plenty of english people resposible for much worse and with more extreme views.
Islam is a religion of peace. I work with muslims. They wouldnt hurt a fly! They are very nice pople.
Nobody judges the UK based on Ian Huntly do they? Its rediculous.

[boxtops]

honeydip, by and large I'd agree with you - some of our best friends are Muslim - but it's always stories like this which get airtime, not the peaceloving people the rest of us know.

[naomi24]

Honeydip, //These stories are remote and are nothing but scaremongering and islamaphobia to be honest.//

Actually, that is not being honest – and these stories are not ‘remote’. The sole reason that Muslim women persist in covering their hair is so that the sight of their flowing locks do not encourage men into sexual temptation. It’s as simple as that.

[chrisgel]

Honeydip// Maybe if your Muslim friends and all the others who profess that radical Islam does not represent the Muslim faith were to speak out a bit more against the atrocities committed in the name of their faith, then you would have a point. Unfortunately it's the radicals who make the news and every day we hear of yet another ignorant group of fanatics who are trying to tell us how we should live. Islamaphobia is their word, invented to make us feel guilty about being who we are. I for one will never accept any religion that involves itself in the affairs of people who don't share their beliefs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfJ6FpabknY&list=UUWOkEnBl5TO4SCLfSlosjgg&index=2

[woofgang]

its not only Islam that believes that the way that women dress and behave makes any assault their fault, although it does seem that Islam has more than its fair share of that particular idiocy.

BUT as an old fashioned woman, I do think that Joanna Lumley has a point....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/27/joanna-lumley-rape-advice

[honeydip]

Convincing speach but when he compared nazis to muslims he descredited himself straight away.

[chrisgel]

I didn't hear him compare Muslims to Nazis. He compared their ideologies i.e. that Islam's aims are "world domination". But then again I'm used to hearing left wing apologists make excuses for Islam.

[LazyGun]

Its certainly right to point out that it is not only religion or religious views have contributed to the regressive views about women, and men too, for that matter. As a man, I find it exceptionally offensive that some people think and teach that I am a complete slave to my sexual desires, and that I cannot help but to lust after a woman unless she is covered from head to foot! How demeaning is that?

And these views and values have been present in many cultures over the years, our own included - chastity belts etc. But I am willing to bet that if you trace the genesis of all such views, you will find that it stems from religion, and religion does have an obligation to review its teachings. Simply teaching stuff because they have always taught it that way, or because some holy book says it must be done that way forever and ever amen is stupid and oppressive.

We see the pernicious blight, the dead hand of religion, all the time, in all societies - from US republican politicians making stupid, offensive and biologically inaccurate sentiments about rape, to religiously inspired arguments and scientific inaccuracies about abortion. These views sometimes inspire violent direct action - the murder of doctors in the US, for instance, or the shooting in the head of a young teenage girl in Pakistan because she spoke up for some progressive values about education and girls.

The silent majority within these religions - those who really are not fanatical about their faith, who are content to live and let live, who want their wives and daughters and sisters to have equal rights and equal opportunities - they need to speak up more, find a voice, tell these regressive usually male patriarchal nutters from the fundamentalist wing of their religion that spouting such fanatical bigotry, such offensive and ill thought out nonsense is harmful to society......

[joggerjayne]

Although its true that women are sexually attacked here, the difference is that here, even other men despise men who attack women.

That's a big hurdle which Islam needs to get over ... as Naomi indicated in the opening post.

In the Joanna Lumley article, the advice about staying in "girl packs" is right ... there's safety in numbers.

Actually, I've never felt at risk walking home at night.

I generally work on the basis that, if you're going drinking, you might need a corkscrew. So I take one. Just in case, you understand. One like this ...

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=waiters+friend+corkscrew&hl=en&safe=off&;client=safari&tbo=d&;source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=T1QSUcOIHtSX0QXAh4CoCg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=644#biv=i|10;d|7aXG0xxMq0idcM:

It's not a weapon, obviously. And it would be a complete accident if you did attack me and got a corkscrew in the face. Happily, I've never had to use it. Well, you know, except for removing corks, lol.

[RATTER15]

JJ, be very careful, if you were to use or even brandish a cork screw it would be seen as a weapon, steel combs are also considered a weapon. and if that cork screw were taken away from you by an attacker it could end up embedded in you. A rape alarm is a far better option!!

[honeydip]

Moderate muslims do not want anything of the like. They do not want world domination at all. This is Islamaphobia and it is inciting hatred against a peaceful religion. The guy in the video is both islamaphobic and islamaphobiaphobic. Simple as

[joggerjayne]

He wouldn't need to take it off me, RATTER. He'd be welcome to it, once he'd unscrewed it from his face, lol.

Look, the reality is this ... you have a choice ...

Risk of being defenceless if you get attacked

... against ...

Risk of being fined for carrying a weapon.

I'd rather risk the fine.

Happily, I think the Police are taking (unofficially) a sensible view of this. If you're on your way to work, on the Tube, with a corkscrew, it might be hard to explain. But if you've been out drinking, and you might end up somewhere that you need to open wine ... well, you're going to need a corkscrew.