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Can All Weird Experiences Be Explained?
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I'm generally sceptical of the paranormal and view with suspicion the claims of psychics, spiritualists and the like. However I personally know many people who have had some very strange and inexplicable occurences.
Can ALL strange experiences really be explained by science, psychology etc?
Can ALL strange experiences really be explained by science, psychology etc?
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If I may say, Naomi, no it doesn't quite contradict what I said before. If you see something weird, that it's not deluded to say that you saw that, even if it was really a brain effect. On the other hand, it is in my opinion wrong to then say oh that's the spirit world or what have you, and then it is deluded to continue to protest that you really did see an actual ghost despite evidence to the contrary. There are levels of this.
I can happily accept that people see weird things, easy. What I do not accept, since countless studies have shown that we aren't that great at perceiving things, is that what we saw was actually there independent of the viewer.
I can happily accept that people see weird things, easy. What I do not accept, since countless studies have shown that we aren't that great at perceiving things, is that what we saw was actually there independent of the viewer.
naomi - that is what i have been saying all along!
you were the one that mentioned them, you kept saying how do i know there are not ghosts in public places that look like people - not me!
i see no point in saying there might be ghosts all over, but we don't know because they blend in, quite simply because, true or not, we will never know.
i was talking, as i said a few times, about the ones that are quite clearly ghosts, the ones that float or are see-through or dressed strangely or disappear etc, and how they are rarely ever reported in public in front of people.
magmay - i did not see your story - my point was made to naomi - who mentioned it and seemed to be saying that if someone is where they are not supposed to be, that an option must be that they're a ghost - i was saying, its an option that should really be at the bottom of the list, not the top - unless they do something clearly 'ghostly'.
and please don't tell me i have a closed mind simply because i do not believe every person who claims to have seen a ghost actually has seen one - you would have to be an idiot to just blindly take everyones word for it without question.
you seem to have not read my other posts and are misunderstanding where i am coming from here - i also have seen things and happen to be one of the few people who has had a group sighting - and it appears that your sighting was at least in daylight and outdoors, which already lifts it out of the 'i was woken by...' stories.
i am not saying i think you are lying, i believe you believe you saw it, and i am not saying there was not a ghost there - but you believing you saw it does not make at a total fact, that others can be 100% certain of and does not prove the existence of ghosts.
i have 4 other people who saw the same thing as me quite clearly and we were in a public place - it was going dark but still early evening and well lit, only about 10ft away - but even with that i cannot state categorically that it is 'proof' of ghosts.
you were the one that mentioned them, you kept saying how do i know there are not ghosts in public places that look like people - not me!
i see no point in saying there might be ghosts all over, but we don't know because they blend in, quite simply because, true or not, we will never know.
i was talking, as i said a few times, about the ones that are quite clearly ghosts, the ones that float or are see-through or dressed strangely or disappear etc, and how they are rarely ever reported in public in front of people.
magmay - i did not see your story - my point was made to naomi - who mentioned it and seemed to be saying that if someone is where they are not supposed to be, that an option must be that they're a ghost - i was saying, its an option that should really be at the bottom of the list, not the top - unless they do something clearly 'ghostly'.
and please don't tell me i have a closed mind simply because i do not believe every person who claims to have seen a ghost actually has seen one - you would have to be an idiot to just blindly take everyones word for it without question.
you seem to have not read my other posts and are misunderstanding where i am coming from here - i also have seen things and happen to be one of the few people who has had a group sighting - and it appears that your sighting was at least in daylight and outdoors, which already lifts it out of the 'i was woken by...' stories.
i am not saying i think you are lying, i believe you believe you saw it, and i am not saying there was not a ghost there - but you believing you saw it does not make at a total fact, that others can be 100% certain of and does not prove the existence of ghosts.
i have 4 other people who saw the same thing as me quite clearly and we were in a public place - it was going dark but still early evening and well lit, only about 10ft away - but even with that i cannot state categorically that it is 'proof' of ghosts.
Jim, //it is deluded to continue to protest that you really did see an actual ghost despite evidence to the contrary.//
Clearly if there’s a rational explanation it’s ridiculous to claim otherwise … but what if there isn’t?
Joko, //you were the one that mentioned them,//
No. You raised the subject, not I.
//i also wonder why we never see ghosts etc in shops, cafes, any public places in the middle of the day ... //
I simply answered you.
//seemed to be saying that if someone is where they are not supposed to be, that an option must be that they're a ghost//
I didn’t say that either.
To Magsmay from Joko: //you seem to have not read my other posts and are misunderstanding where i am coming from here - i also have seen things and happen to be one of the few people who has had a group sighting - and it appears that your sighting was at least in daylight and outdoors,//
Mine was in daylight too, but perhaps you haven’t read my post.
//i cannot state categorically that it is 'proof' of ghosts.//
Neither can anyone else. There is no proof. That's the whole point of all these discussions.
Clearly if there’s a rational explanation it’s ridiculous to claim otherwise … but what if there isn’t?
Joko, //you were the one that mentioned them,//
No. You raised the subject, not I.
//i also wonder why we never see ghosts etc in shops, cafes, any public places in the middle of the day ... //
I simply answered you.
//seemed to be saying that if someone is where they are not supposed to be, that an option must be that they're a ghost//
I didn’t say that either.
To Magsmay from Joko: //you seem to have not read my other posts and are misunderstanding where i am coming from here - i also have seen things and happen to be one of the few people who has had a group sighting - and it appears that your sighting was at least in daylight and outdoors,//
Mine was in daylight too, but perhaps you haven’t read my post.
//i cannot state categorically that it is 'proof' of ghosts.//
Neither can anyone else. There is no proof. That's the whole point of all these discussions.
Today I was asked to look at a leak on a bathroom basin, upon taking a look I could see why there was a leak but it was very difficult to access what needed tightening up. So I decided to call into Toolstation to buy a special spanner. I didn't know what Toolstation would call this spanner or even if they stocked one.
I was thinking 'this will be a nightmare trying to find the tool in a 500 page catalogue'
So in I went, I went to the first available catalogue and it was open at a random page, with a order form on that page.
It was open at the page I wanted, not only that there was a order form filled out for the exact spanner I wanted ..........weird.
Tamborine - “... the boy was saved by docs after 'a force' made him move where he could get help...”
I watched the clip. It's an amazing story but there is zero evidence for his account. It's entirely anecdotal and as such is practically worthless as a piece of evidence. After watching that video, did it occur to you to ask yourself if he was simply telling a tall tale of his ordeal?
More importantly, did it occur to you to ask yourself if he was mistaken or possibly hallucinating due to the trauma of the event? He had after all, been shot. Given certain trauma, the brain can and does release a plethora of chemicals which may induce many visual and auditory fantasies. For example, it is well documented that the hallucination of flying (or an out-of-body-experience) is triggered by atropine and other belladonna alkaloids.
I'm not saying that this kid is lying but that doesn't mean his account is true either.
I watched the clip. It's an amazing story but there is zero evidence for his account. It's entirely anecdotal and as such is practically worthless as a piece of evidence. After watching that video, did it occur to you to ask yourself if he was simply telling a tall tale of his ordeal?
More importantly, did it occur to you to ask yourself if he was mistaken or possibly hallucinating due to the trauma of the event? He had after all, been shot. Given certain trauma, the brain can and does release a plethora of chemicals which may induce many visual and auditory fantasies. For example, it is well documented that the hallucination of flying (or an out-of-body-experience) is triggered by atropine and other belladonna alkaloids.
I'm not saying that this kid is lying but that doesn't mean his account is true either.
oh Naomi ...
Where did I say it first?
you said -
"[ghosts] ... don’t usually appear as floating diaphanous spectres, but as people with apparently solid bodies"
And I stated, numerous times that I was referring to those that looked obviously ghostly.
I'm not sure how many other ways there are to say that.
It's clear you have not read my comments properly, or you'd surely have understood ...indeed it even seems at times we are in agreement, yet you're speaking as though I'm saying the opposite!
I will try to explain one last time just to be clear why there has been a misunderstanding here - My original comments were regarding the people who are utterly convinced they've seen a ghost- yet never have any evidence, or someone to back them up, and often start some vague story with 'i was asleep and...' - and for that reason it is highly likely a dream, imagination or a lie. Some people just like to 'think' they have...no matter how vague, and will ignore all rational explanations.
I was NOT referring to people who've had joint visions, or been in public.
I was noting that those stories are sadly pretty rare...simply because a huge proportion of the stories are fake or mistakes and so must have no witnesses.
My question of why we rarely see them in those circumstances was me being somewhat facetious!
And no I haven't read your story, those comments were to Magsmay.
You also have not answered me at all - merely saying that people MAY have seen ghosts but they looked like us so they didn't know is not an answer...and just shows the lack of understanding of my point... since it wasn't really a proper question that needed an answer.
Anyway, its actually starting to seem a bit like you are just deliberately nitpicking and splitting hairs, so I hope you now understand where I was coming from and I suggest we just wrap our discussion up now because its going round in circles and I cannot be bothered with it.
Where did I say it first?
you said -
"[ghosts] ... don’t usually appear as floating diaphanous spectres, but as people with apparently solid bodies"
And I stated, numerous times that I was referring to those that looked obviously ghostly.
I'm not sure how many other ways there are to say that.
It's clear you have not read my comments properly, or you'd surely have understood ...indeed it even seems at times we are in agreement, yet you're speaking as though I'm saying the opposite!
I will try to explain one last time just to be clear why there has been a misunderstanding here - My original comments were regarding the people who are utterly convinced they've seen a ghost- yet never have any evidence, or someone to back them up, and often start some vague story with 'i was asleep and...' - and for that reason it is highly likely a dream, imagination or a lie. Some people just like to 'think' they have...no matter how vague, and will ignore all rational explanations.
I was NOT referring to people who've had joint visions, or been in public.
I was noting that those stories are sadly pretty rare...simply because a huge proportion of the stories are fake or mistakes and so must have no witnesses.
My question of why we rarely see them in those circumstances was me being somewhat facetious!
And no I haven't read your story, those comments were to Magsmay.
You also have not answered me at all - merely saying that people MAY have seen ghosts but they looked like us so they didn't know is not an answer...and just shows the lack of understanding of my point... since it wasn't really a proper question that needed an answer.
Anyway, its actually starting to seem a bit like you are just deliberately nitpicking and splitting hairs, so I hope you now understand where I was coming from and I suggest we just wrap our discussion up now because its going round in circles and I cannot be bothered with it.
I would love to believe in ghosts etc, I just can't! If there was a logical explanation for them or I could witness something myself then I may learn to believe.
They can apparantly do all this weird stuff like moving things around, throw things and pinch things but never will they pick up a pen and write a letter. Many people will apparantly witness them but they will never make public appearence or perform under conditions that can be tested. I just can't see any thing in any of it that is believable.
They can apparantly do all this weird stuff like moving things around, throw things and pinch things but never will they pick up a pen and write a letter. Many people will apparantly witness them but they will never make public appearence or perform under conditions that can be tested. I just can't see any thing in any of it that is believable.
naomi, these people do not expect to be ridiculed; they are reporting with honesty and good faith what they experienced. And i would not ridicule them. What I would say is that I cannot explain their experience because I don't have enough data.
Therefore it is no good saying to me "How do you explain that?"
Therefore it is no good saying to me "How do you explain that?"
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