Ghosts

[naomi24]

This emanates from another thread where two people who have been raised as Christians and have and do argue here in favour of religion dismissed the notion that people see ghosts. The question is if you believe that human beings possess a spirit, or a soul, that survives corporal death, why do you doubt that ‘ghosts’ exist?

[Baldric]

I am not a believer in the religious sense, I do however, from things that have happened over the years think that there is something going on that I can't explain regards ghosts!

[naomi24]

Mikey, I don’t think it’s drivel, childish or risible.

Baldric, I agree with you.

[pixie373]

I have seen some strange things happen- my OH and i watched our suitcase rocking backwards and forwards when talking about my Dad in France. I know, without doubt, there'll be a logical explanation that doesn't involve ghosts. I just don't know what it is.
I don't believe in an afterlife (quite arrogant to think we have to go on eternally), so i wouldn't believe in ghosts either.

[naomi24]

Pixie, do you live next to a train line? ;o)

[Kromovaracun]

"I do however, from things that have happened over the years think that there is something going on that I can't explain regards ghosts!"

Here, I'd be inclined to agree - as would pretty much anyone.

Of course, the unknown explanation could be something akin to physical factors (such as infrasound which has been notorious for causing "paranormal"experiences), psychological factors (pareidolia), or perhaps neurological factors (small-scale strokes can cause people to see vivid images, such as spirits rising from the floor).

These may not necessarily be explanations we fully understand, but being uncertain or unable to explain something does not prove that it is a ghost or a spirit - it proves that we do not understand it.

[chrisgel]

As stated previously. We don't like to say we don't know so we propose reasons for the unexplained.

[naomi24]

Krom, spot on. Although not necessarily always as a result of any definable cause, something is going on but we have no idea what it is, and so we call it 'ghosts'.

[pixie373]

No. Lol!

[mikey4444]

I have always read your posts naomi, and while I haven't always agreed with you, you have every appearance of being an educated person.

So I am somewhat puzzled why you give the notion of ghosts even a cursory interest ? Ghosts ? I'm sorry but I stand by drivel.

[whiskeryron]

//
mikey4444
Purgatory was invented in medieval times, by the only educated people around at the time...ie those that had a self-interest in believing in such nonsense in the first place. Drivel, all of of it.//

Drivel, all of it, How absolutely arrogant you are mikey4444. We are to believe then that everything you do not believe in is all drivel.

WR.

[grasscarp]

I believe that human beings possess a spirit (soul) that survives corporal death. I saw a ghost once. Up to the that point had not opinion either way. After it I had no doubt that they are there somehow and not merely imagined.

[naomi24]

Mikey, personal experience leaves me no choice. I’d really rather not have reached the conclusion that inexplicable ‘bumps in the night’ – and during the day – do occur, but I have no doubt whatsoever that they do.

[mikey4444]

For goodness sake...ghosts and ghoulies ? I take nothing back...complete drivel. You will all be believing in Father Xmas next !

[jim360]

In defence of Naomi, I don't think that she believes in ghosts. rather, that she has heard noises that have no apparent cause. Well, what's drivel about that?

[ludwig]

I was in two minds about it, but Mikey's made some very salient points in a well reasoned argument, so I'm wavering towards his point of view.

[naomi24]

Mikey & Ludwig, unless ‘drivel’ is a salient point, I can’t see any salient points from Mikey at all, but that aside, there’s not a lot worth saying because that instant dismissal brings any further discussion on the subject to a halt. No point in attempting to convince minds that, without an iota of personal experience, are already solidly made up. Just one question. You’re right Mikey. I can be considered to be educated, so why do you think I would expose myself to unnecessary ridicule?

Jim, thank you – but I do think ’ghosts’ 'happen' - and I know things far more than noises happen too. I'd rather they didn't, but I don’t delude myself. They do.

[Canary42]

What about the Holy Ghost ?

[ludwig]

// I can’t see any salient points from Mikey at all //

No, me neither. I was being sarcastic.

[naomi24]

Ludwig, I didn't realise that.

[Mojo-Jo-Jo]

I'm sorry Naomi but I find you to be somewhat of a contradiction.
You say on a regular basis that the idea of god is almost laughable, but you believe in tripe like dowsing, mediums and ghosts.
Your knowledge is astounding in religious matters but I think you are a hypocrite.
All I have as proof of your encounters is your word and that requires faith. I don't have it because it is easy to be swept away by supernatural notions when the central heating is banging in your room. You have that. I require proof.