Do Churches Need To Be De- And Re- Consecrated When A New Franchise Moves In?

[AB Editor]

Morning,

I was wondering how a new franchise takes over a church. For example, what if there was a little Baptist church run by a Baptist priest/vicar and then, for some reason, the church was sold to the Catholic church.

Naturally they want to get one of their team in behind the pulpit, so they give Jonny Baptists his/her marching orders.

And then what?

Do they take over "fully furnished" in the sense of continuing the consecration "ticket", or do they de-consecrate and reapply their own "ticket"? Or do they just paint over the top with their version, so there's overlap?

I'd like to know the answer, but would also like any little stories you know about this kind of thing :)

Thanks in advance,

Ed

[AB Editor]

Okay follow up - what if the place is de-consecrated but not re-consecrated on the same day, and some kind of religious squatters came in and concentrated it in their flavour? What's the theological logic there? What happens next?

[Octavius]

The RC church would just consecrate, as anything else would be determined a place of "common and profane use" rather than sacred or divine. The dedication is (or used to be) celebrated annually.

The RC church doesn't really have a ritual for removal of Gods blessing - deconsecration - (they just take their loot and go). So if it is passed on to another demonination they will probably have their own rite of consecration or conversion or blessing or voodoo.

[AB Editor]

So just a layer "on top" as it were.

[Octavius]

We don't recognise your ritual, so our prayer trumps yours sort of thing, yes. Certainly for RC anyway.

[AB Editor]

"We don't recognise your ritual, so our prayer trumps yours sort of thing, yes. Certainly for RC anyway."

Excellent, although I was hoping it was a "remove previous coat, apply new coat" thing.

Can we think of any flavours of Christianity which would definitely remove the first blessing and then apply their own?

[woofgang]

It (holy relic) would be removed as part of the deconsecration of the church.

[Octavius]

The Brick Lane Mosque (nr 59 Brick Lane) would be an interesting study for you Ab Editor, there might be some information on how (religiously) it changed hands and what processes were involved (other than legal conveyancing) over the years.

[woofgang]

I think the belief that if it isn't our consecration, it doesn't count is pretty well the standard for religions who consecrate, so the only time they would deconsecrate is if the church was going out of religious use. Deconsecration is actually more of a legal process than a bells and smells one. The building is removed from the list of consecrated buildings and can no longer be used for the administration of sacraments, although other church services can still happen there.
Assuming there is still a congregation who cares, there maybe a kind of leaving service for the building, remembering past congregations, giving thanks for past blessings, that kind of thing.

[Octavius]

Woofgang, yes I was saying that 'deconsecration' doesn't occur but maybe by default it does. In the RC Chrich a place can lose its consecration but this is usually when two thirds of the walls have fallen down or suchlike. Deconsecration in its real sense would just be a last service and goodbye (don't forget the gold!) and then a conveyancing process.

A church is not likely to remove Gods blessing in its strictest sense through ritual as it would probably want the blessing to remain on the new owners or patrons. Hence, if they were another denomination they might want to over-rite (geddit) the former blessing.

[tamborine]

Mosque al-Mohassin, a sect of Shia Islam have recently bought & occupied the church & site of Exclusive (Plymouth) Brethren (headscarf wearers). They intend to Islamify" the building at a future date as funds become available.

it neighbors the local C of E church

Scroll down page for more info

http://www.fulmervillage.org/whatsnew.shtml

[AB Editor]

Thanks, I'll have a further look at Brick Lane.

So does the relic "power" the church in any way. Could you remove the relic and keep the church consecrated? I assume so, but it would be interesting.

What I'm looking for is a time between two franchises where the Church isn't "covered" so to speak.

Can you think of anything like that?

[AB Editor]

"Hence, if they were another denomination they might want to over-rite (geddit) the former blessing."

Imagine the heavenly paperwork!

[woofgang]

some churches never had a holy relic, many churches have lost theirs (had them removed) over the years. In no sense do they "power" the church, but they are not something that would be left in unhallowed surroundings. The other thing that will be reverently removed or disposed of are things like vestments and the Blessed Sacrament(blessed bread and wine) if it is reserved in the church.

[naomi24]

Much less hassle to sell it as a going concern - more money in it that way too. ;o)

[woofgang]

covered by what? Deconsecration is a legal process by which a building that has been owned by a church is prepared for sale or to be given away. In that sense, every church building that passes out of church hands goes through a deconsecration process. While there might be a final farewell service and some kind of ceremony where revered objects are removed, no one goes around saying "I unbless this place"

[jomifl]

No church 'needs' to be consecrated, it is just done to give the prevailing religious authority a sense of it's own importance and to impress the punters.. I haven't noticed the pope consecrating every place where he blesses people or says prayers. Tanks and warships were blessed where they were which wasn't on consecrated ground or water (that would be difficult)

[AB Editor]

Naomi, I'm less interested in the money at the point and more the theological webbing :)

True though.

[AB Editor]

"covered by what?"

By something like "god insurance" I guess? I'm not sure what I'm getting at really, but I found the concept interesting.

"Deconsecration is a legal process by which a building that has been owned by a church is prepared for sale or to be given away."

Which isn't as exciting as I thought/hoped.

"I haven't noticed the pope consecrating every place where he blesses people or says prayers."

I assume he has some kind of "auto-consecration" powers wherever he is.

[woofgang]

jomifli, according to the C of E "rules" you can't celebrate the sacraments in an unconsecrated place unless given permission to do so by a Bishop. The exception is carrying the Sacrament to the sick and dying.

[woofgang]

pressed submit too soon.
Normal prayers and blessings, even by the Pope can happen anywhere. Its the sacraments that are reserved for consecrated places.