Do You Believe The Impossible?

[naomi24]

During the course of discussions here I’ve put this question to several believers, with no response, so I'll throw it open. Following the crucifixion, the New Testament tells of dead men rising from their graves and appearing on the streets of Jerusalem, so to the people who claim the bible holds only truth, do you believe that – and if so why do you think this truly momentous event wasn’t recorded by the authorities of the day?


//"and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." Matthew 27:52-53 //

[emmie]

i don't believe the dead can rise again, not even if it says it in the bible, and i have read that once or twice when i was a deal younger, but now i stick to facts, until someone can give me incontrovertible proof that people can be resurrected, i will go on believing they can't, besides i am sure the o/h would have come back if that was really the case, and he has been gone a while now, and he wouldn't have missed an opportunity to scare the hell out of me, all in the best possible taste..

[naomi24]

Emmie, these people weren't raised in a spiritual sense - they rose bodily from their graves - allegedly.

[Old_Geezer]

The title of the thread implies you believe this to be impossible and therefore pour scorn on anyone who might wish to disagree. Seems a little hard handed ?

Stories get changed with the frequent retelling. Embellishment, or simply not getting it quite right. Maybe originally this was a simple case of claiming survival of death and the rising/appearance of the spirit in what seemed to be a solid form ? It's not a million miles from what some claim they see today.

[naomi24]

OG, you’re right. I do believe it’s impossible – but I fail to see the scorn you accuse me of. It’s a straightforward question. You say “Stories get changed with the frequent retelling. Embellishment, or simply not getting it quite right.” I’ll agree with that, but in this case it wasn’t spirits that arose from graves – it was actual bodies – and it comes from the allegedly infallible bible. How do you square that?

[beso]

My granddaughter attends a Catholic school. Aged six or so she said to me, "Once you are dead you can't come back can you?"

I confirmed this and she said, "I thought so." I could see the cognitive process in action and well knew where the question had its beginnings.

I bewilders me that some adults will accept what is resoundingly doubted by a small child.

[keyplus90]

I know you are asking about Bible and as you are aware that I can't tell you about that. However Quran talks about resurrection on the day of judgement. It is mentioned many times in Quran and most significantly in chapter 75 Qiyammat. Here it is and it talks about people not believing in it.

75:3 Does man think that We will not assemble his bones?
75:4 Yes. [We are] Able [even] to proportion his fingertips.
75:5 But man desires to continue in sin.
75:6 He asks, "When is the Day of Resurrection?"

[Old_Geezer]

So you do not feel that asking if someone beleives in the impossible rather than in a particular incident is not scornful of itself ? A challange to make a fool of the respondant ?

As mentioned, stories change in the telling. I suspect a reasonable claim from a believer might be that the essence is true/infallible even if the descriptions are not necessarily still perfectly worded.

[naomi24]

OG, no, I don’t feel that. As far as I am aware it is impossible – but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

//As mentioned, stories change in the telling.//

I’ve already agreed with that – but the point here is some people claim that every word in the bible is the truth so I’m asking them if this is true.

Keyplus, you and Goodlife are of one mind - almost.

[sandyRoe]

Lazarus was resurrected 4 long days after he died. I sometimes wonder if God did him any favour in doing that. For the rest of his life he'd have been the object of pointed fingers and loud whispers about the undead, and the like. Better, I think, to let those sleeping slumber undisturbed.

[Peter Pedant]

.

sure do Baby-Nay: and I am not the first

Tertullian

credo quia incredibilis

I believe because it is unbelievable

I know Modeller is going to pup up and say this proves it is a lie and a fabrication etc etc BUT
Mt 27 52 I would have thought this is metaphorical.
The only difficulty is that bodily ressuraction is in the credo (all christian faiths) and that is why christians were buried and not immolated. - no body no resurrestion
and I think was probably believed by the person/people who wrote Mt. This I would have thought shows that at the time the gospels were written, they believed the Millenium was just around the corner.

[mikey4444]

I don't believe in fairies, wizards, dragons, ghosts, elves and leprechauns. I also don't believe in gods and I most certainly don't believe in people "rising" from the dead. Its all supernatural poppycock, and has no place in the 21st century.

[Theland]

Well it's not as commonplace as a trip to the supermarket, but not being commonplace does not prove or disprove much.

[naomi24]

He that cannot reason is a fool. He that dare not is a slave.
Andrew Carnegie

[DaisyNonna]

When were saints first acknowledged?

[naomi24]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonization

[PipinDorset]

Surely only by believing does the impossible become possible?

[naomi24]

People can believe what they want to believe – but belief doesn’t make it so.

[chakka35]

I don't know why, naomi, you expected a sensible answer to this from believers. Theland's idea that because there has never been a case of elves coming into the house overnight to repair shoes it is not right to dismiss the idea is correct in a way, but not a reason for anyone with any sense to believe it.
O_G surprises me. I could not detect any mockery either, and he is usually more sensible that he shows here.

But the important question is why anyone should believe such a ridiculous story just because some unknown person wrote it down some 2000 years ago, without producing any evidence or eyewitnesses? On that basis you can justify a belief in any old thing.

[chakka35]

Query unnecessary after 'eyewitnesses'. Sorry.

[naomi24]

Chakka, I really would like to know if anyone really believes this and was hoping for honest answers from the people who claim the bible to be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. It transpires that Theland believes it, and Keyplus believes it, albeit by proxy so to speak. I actually invited the most vocal believer we have here, Goodlife, to contribute to this thread but he declined, telling me that I “have to remember that it can be both literal and symbolic”. So far he has failed to explain who decides what is literal and what is symbolic, and how those conclusions are reached – but we’ve now established that contrary to his previous claims, he doesn’t believe that his bible contains only truth.