Where's Naomi, Her Trenchant Views In R&s Are...

[sandyRoe]

...missed?

[sandyRoe]

The complexity of life demands some ugly life forms. Some viruses are among the ugliest. Such things are not for our understanding. At best, we see through a glass, darkly.

[grasscarp]

Why would those who don't believe in God care what those who do believe think about? To ask suggests that you do also believe. If you believe everything is totally random with no creator then there is nothing to ask about. The continual questions from atheists - why does He allow this that and the other has to imply that they admit God exists.

[pixie373]

Not at all, grasscarp. That's illogical. I'm an atheist and my views won't change unless some scientific proof is found. As it stands, i have no doubts. I ask questions, because I'm interested in how other people think and how they justify things to themselves (not just religion). But to me, it's about psychology.

[naomi24]

Grasscarp, //The continual questions from atheists - why does He allow this that and the other has to imply that they admit God exists. //

You’re wrong. Asking such a question is an appeal to rationality.

[mrs_overall]

sandy: the complexity of life demands some ugly life forms

How did you know about my first husband?

[sandyRoe]

Mrs O, LOL. But to be honest, I was thinking of myself when I typed that :-)

[Khandro]

pixie; //I'm an atheist and my views won't change unless some scientific proof //
Why do you ask for proof at all? why do you want it explained to you? why do you assume that the universe hangs together in a way that makes explanation possible? Where do our notions of explanation, regularity and intelligibility come from? How do we explain rationality and intelligibility themselves, for that matter? Are these questions superfluous, or just too hard to answer?

[naomi24]

Khandro, you argue for religion. How do you reach your conclusions?

[AB Editor]

"Why do you assume that the universe hangs together in a way that makes explanation possible?"

Because humans are the story-telling animal, it's what we do.

Also, it stands to reason that the universe hangs together in a way that makes explanation possible, eventually. We believe man is in ascent and we believe that, like the last 100 years, the next will contain technology which allows us further insight.

Many of us are just waiting for that small step in technology to unlock further understanding.

There might be unanswerable questions, but I'd say that we're not quite there yet!

[AB Editor]

I forgot to add Khandro - I like your questions.

[sandyRoe]

it must be nice to bask in the approbation of he who controls all things in AB

[jim360]

One would have thought that a being powerful enough to set up an entire Universe would also be able to set it up in any way He saw fit. If "life demands some ugly life-forms" doesn't make the Creator all that powerful, or implies that He Himself is bound by natural laws. On the other hand if that's just the way He wanted it then so much for a loving God.

This is just a restatement of the Problem of Evil, of course, but I think that this twist on it makes a stronger case against either all-powerful or all-loving.

[sandyRoe]

'All loving' really seems most unlikely. If he was that he'd have excused Adam and Eve's little peccadillo in the Garden of Eden and let them, and us, stay.

[Khandro]

Ab Editor; //it stands to REASON [my caps] that the universe hangs together in a way that makes explanation possible,//
You hoist yourself with your own petard, if that is intended as an answer to my question, methinks.

[jomifl]

Khandro, since several problems which puzzled our ancestors enough to force them to invent the concept of a deity have since yielded to the application of determined rational thought, it doesn't seem unreasonable to think that this process might yield further insight into the strucure and workings of the universe. Until such time as this approach ceases to yield results or a better one is found it doesn't seem unreasonable to continue with it. Sitting in a cave and living on a nutritionally deficient diet may cause hallucinations pertaining to comprehension of the entire cosmos but these revelations do not seem to accord with the reality perceived by the the majority of people living outside the aforementioned cave.
Why even that paragon of spirituality who started this thread declined my offer to find him a nice cave in the Pyrenées. :o)

[AB Editor]

Sorry:

It is EVIDENT that as our technology progresses our ability to observe more provides more explanation.

But you knew that's what I meant. I can see how people get grumpy with you so quickly now :)

[jim360]

Ha! Ab Editor's view of Khandro takes a quick about-turn...

Thanks for the answer by the way Sandy. Nice to know where you stand.

[jomifl]

//it stands to REASON [my caps] that the universe hangs together in a way that makes explanation possible,//
Because it can be explained by reasoning.....that wasn't too difficult was it?

[jomifl]

Sandy, it would have saved a lot of trouble if god had known a fencing contractor...

[sandyRoe]

There's a small derelict shelter high on the Col Leopoeder on the route of the Camino across the mountains. Whenever I'm in a pensive mood I imagine myself there marvelling at God's wonderful creation and at the same time looking down on the scudding clouds far below. What need have I for a cave?