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Is This Why Many Say They Believe ?
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I was talking to a Theist friend of mine who said that he was a Theist not because he believed , in general terms he didn't , but rather it was better than the alternative. He said he Needed to believe in something outside himself and the known universe. He said without religion, life was a void.
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Jaclyn Glenn witters on for almost 6 minutes failing to give a reasoned argument at the start because she compares a situation she can and tells us she has tested with one she can not (at least in her lifetime) and presumably thinks she has made a point.
She then changes to subject to why she thinks God & Heaven do not exist, which is a different question, and points out different folk believe different things. Ok then believe them all if you wish.
She then changes to subject to why she thinks God & Heaven do not exist, which is a different question, and points out different folk believe different things. Ok then believe them all if you wish.
It mightn't have been the most coherent argument ever, but the point about "Which religion to bet for?" is an entirely valid one, for Pascal's wager relies on there being only two choices: My God, or no God at all. And there just are not, but the Wager never seems to apply for people who are Christian betting against Islam, or Jews refusing to dabble in Hinduism on the off-chance, etc.
Be nice if people would leave us Christians alone for a bit. I don't do harm to others and neither do my friends at church. I would like to think that we do some good. A little grace and understanding, tolerance and even appreciation of the good works that so many in all denominations do might be, even grudgingly, be the mark of adulthood.
Who's attacking anyone?
Another problem with Pascal's Wager is that as soon as you start extending it to multiple religions you end up following none of them, really, as most religions contain the "you should follow this religion only" clause. So you have to pick one, just one, and then you end up risking losing the bet anyway.
The only way to play the "game" safely is to take a decision to follow a religion, or not, because you honestly and genuinely believe it to be the correct one. Any amount of intellectual dishonesty about religious belief is surely going to be no more likely to lead to eternal salvation than honestly and truly not believing at all.
Another problem with Pascal's Wager is that as soon as you start extending it to multiple religions you end up following none of them, really, as most religions contain the "you should follow this religion only" clause. So you have to pick one, just one, and then you end up risking losing the bet anyway.
The only way to play the "game" safely is to take a decision to follow a religion, or not, because you honestly and genuinely believe it to be the correct one. Any amount of intellectual dishonesty about religious belief is surely going to be no more likely to lead to eternal salvation than honestly and truly not believing at all.
//Is this why many say they believe//
Let take some fresh air! How refreshing after one’s being in a stuffy room! But even in the wide open spaces, pollution is a major problem today.
Why do I say that, well some death-dealing pollutants of this world’s “air” are not easily detected, even as such contaminants of the literal air as carbon monoxide are odorless and tasteless.
The danger, then, is that you may not detect the ‘deadly fumes.
So, you need to be alert that is not be led into a death trap by this world’s permissive believe attitudes.
Because it from “the ruler of this world. (John 12:31)
It is everywhere in human society. If we breathe it in, you begin to adopt its attitudes.
Its aims,is death dealing for you and me.
See if you can see it in this passage scripture Proverbs 5:3-14.
I know my alternative.
Let take some fresh air! How refreshing after one’s being in a stuffy room! But even in the wide open spaces, pollution is a major problem today.
Why do I say that, well some death-dealing pollutants of this world’s “air” are not easily detected, even as such contaminants of the literal air as carbon monoxide are odorless and tasteless.
The danger, then, is that you may not detect the ‘deadly fumes.
So, you need to be alert that is not be led into a death trap by this world’s permissive believe attitudes.
Because it from “the ruler of this world. (John 12:31)
It is everywhere in human society. If we breathe it in, you begin to adopt its attitudes.
Its aims,is death dealing for you and me.
See if you can see it in this passage scripture Proverbs 5:3-14.
I know my alternative.
Jayne, ;o)
Modeller, // …he was a Theist not because he believed , in general terms he didn't , but rather it was better than the alternative. He said he Needed to believe in something outside himself and the known universe.//
That makes no sense. Just what does he believe?
Pascal's Wager - one of the daftest, most ill-conceived ideas ever proposed. The omniscient God of Abraham knows the secrets of all hearts - allegedly. Therefore, it stands to reason that no matter what sneaky tactic is utilised to attempt to cheat him - and death - it's not going to work. He's got it sussed. Plan B anyone?
Modeller, // …he was a Theist not because he believed , in general terms he didn't , but rather it was better than the alternative. He said he Needed to believe in something outside himself and the known universe.//
That makes no sense. Just what does he believe?
Pascal's Wager - one of the daftest, most ill-conceived ideas ever proposed. The omniscient God of Abraham knows the secrets of all hearts - allegedly. Therefore, it stands to reason that no matter what sneaky tactic is utilised to attempt to cheat him - and death - it's not going to work. He's got it sussed. Plan B anyone?
It's been pointed out numerous times, and by better people than me, that all religions cannot be right simultaneously because they often contradict each other. Even the ones with a huge overlap disagree on major issues. Jesus was a false prophet (Jews) or a true prophet (Islam) or the Son of God (Christians), and this is a highly non-trivial disagreement, and one of several between the three Abrahmic faiths.
That, and as Naomi pointed out God's ability to see your true purpose, shows that Pascal's Wager is necessarily lost unless belief is genuine, rather than for convenience.
That, and as Naomi pointed out God's ability to see your true purpose, shows that Pascal's Wager is necessarily lost unless belief is genuine, rather than for convenience.
I can't comment on all the posts but I can put a bit of meat on my OP .
My friend is a Christian . He is C of E. He does go to a Free Church run by a Baptist Minister . He does go to the discussion groups, chaired by the BM, which covers subjects like, marriage and divorce , telepathy, second sight, ghosts, are miracles and prayers ever proved ? Does a belief have a value even if it can never be proved.? What can be accepted as Proof anyway ?
It was on these last two questions that he said he needed the crutch of a religious belief despite his doubts.
My friend is a Christian . He is C of E. He does go to a Free Church run by a Baptist Minister . He does go to the discussion groups, chaired by the BM, which covers subjects like, marriage and divorce , telepathy, second sight, ghosts, are miracles and prayers ever proved ? Does a belief have a value even if it can never be proved.? What can be accepted as Proof anyway ?
It was on these last two questions that he said he needed the crutch of a religious belief despite his doubts.
The crucial point raised by Naomi's, err, JJ's, dammit, whoever's argument is that arbitrary beliefs have consequences, among them compromising one's own ability to reason and grasp the true nature of reality . . . all for the sake of a preferred delusion. If the only criteria one has for believing is that it simply feels right then it's just as likely you've fallen head first into the devils trap, which is . . . religion.
Before christianity was invented everybody must have been rooting for the wrong god. We don't have any evidence that the right god has turned up or will turn up, the odds are heavily against it happening soon, given that he hasn't managed the to turn up yet. So Pascal's wager isn't even just a philosphical party trick, it is pointless and silly.
//He said without religion, life was a void.//
The church goes to great lengths to reinforce this notion. You are born a worthless sinner and only though The Lord can you become something worthy.
Indeed, for a very long time, and in some places, still to this day, the church will make sure your life is absolutely null and void if you choose not to believe.
The church goes to great lengths to reinforce this notion. You are born a worthless sinner and only though The Lord can you become something worthy.
Indeed, for a very long time, and in some places, still to this day, the church will make sure your life is absolutely null and void if you choose not to believe.
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