Who Was The Creator?

[naomi24]

The God of Abraham is just one among many.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creator_deity

Other ideas welcome.

[solvitquick]

Dear jomifl,
Oh I have the maths (I just ask jim) but no-one told me the universe was broken - (I'm always the last to know)!
But have settled the neighbours down after complaints re the "altogether now" singing noise.
Wow Naomi works fast!
Kind Regards.
SIQ.

[naomi24]

//Wow Naomi works fast! //

My reputation precedes me! ;o)

[jomifl]

SIQ, I was forced to the assumption that the universe is broken because a super omnipotent creator surely couldn't have intended it to be like this. Perhaps it was it's first attempt and the latest version is being Beta tested even now. Lets hope it is a smooth transition, the 2 new saints should be a help :o)

[Khandro]

jomifl; Saints have nothing whatsoever to do with the construction of the universe, - or am I misunderstanding you?

[solvitquick]

Old-fashioned lol Naomi - David Bowie popped up so fast.
Ty jom:).
Regards,
SIQ.

[jomifl]

Khandro, I thought they might be of help with the reconstruction, them knowung so much about poverty, birth control etc.

[jomifl]

knowing...that is :o)

[solvitquick]

A great idea jomifl except for the saints! Aren't saints created rather than creators? That aside, the world and universe being, in beta phase testing maybe is brill:)
SIQ.

[jomifl]

Since the saints now exist it would be a pity to let their awsome powers go to waste. All that effort the pope made to canonise them (struggling with his concience despite being infallible) won't go unappreciated by the almighty 3

[Khandro]

jomifl; //Since the saints now exist it would be a pity to let their awsome powers go to waste.//
Added to the fact that saints have nothing to do with the construction of the universe, they also do not now, nor have ever, had 'awesome powers'. They are people considered by the church to be particularly holy by there devotion, rather like, in military terms, those awarded the V.C. for being particularly brave in combat.

[naomi24]

Khandro, //they [saints] also do not now, nor have ever, had 'awesome powers'.//

As I understand it unless the candidate has been martyred, evidence that miracles have been performed is a requirement. That's pretty awesome.

[Khandro]

Naomi; No you are wrong, today, qualification for sainthood can be having led an exemplary life of goodness and virtue worthy of imitation, having died a heroic death (martyrdom), or having undergone a major conversion of heart where a previous immoral life is abandoned and replaced by one of outstanding holiness.
'Formally declared saints are chosen ultimately by the pope, but only after a thorough investigation of the life, writings, and legacy of the saint candidate. No stone is left unturned. Testimony from witnesses and experts, physical evidence, and the entire life of the person is examined with fine detail.'

[jomifl]

'and on the eighth day He created a sense of humour, but not enough to go around' thespians 1.1.

[naomi24]

Khandro, I'm wrong today? I think not.

Your assessment is just the beginning ...

//To be canonized a saint, at least two miracles must have been performed through the saint's intercession after his or her death //

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonization

[Khandro]

^ yes, two, three or six miracles would also do the trick, but you fail to notice that the word 'must' does not appear in your text. it is only another possible route, and as I don't personally believe in miracles - in the Catholic sense, - I don't take that method too seriously, and that's why I said, factually speaking, "nor have ever" to jomifl 23:11above.

jomifl; :-)

[naomi24]

khandro, //it is only another possible route//

No. Unless the candidate is martyred, it is required - which is why when someone the Catholic church considers important dies, it can often be seen to be scratching around for signs of miracles that may be attributed to the deceased. Whether or not you take the method seriously is irrelevant. You don't make the rules - and them's the rules.

[Khandro]

The definition of what is, or is not, a 'miracle', is open to wide interpretation, as to Christian martyrs there is no shortage of choice;, 2,123 in 2013 alone;
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/08/us-christianity-persecution-report-idUSBREA070PB20140108

[solvitquick]

Very interesting to read but I'll certainy restrict myself to that - I really didn't realise sainthood was so complex! Ty Khandro and Naomi.
SIQ.

[naomi24]

Khandro, martyrdom isn't the issue - that path to sainthood has been addressed - and neither is the definition of a miracle.

If you don't believe me, have a look at the Catholic encyclopaedia.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02364b.htm

[Khandro]

^ Please be more precise, far too much to read through, and it anyway begins; "According to some writers...."
I think you just want to argue for the sake of arguing. The issue was raised because jomifl said (light-heartedly) that saints had awesome powers.