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Eternal Life ... But Where?
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"Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away."
Luke 21:33 and Matthew 24:35
What happens with the believers' promised eternal life when both Heaven and Earth have passed away?
Luke 21:33 and Matthew 24:35
What happens with the believers' promised eternal life when both Heaven and Earth have passed away?
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Khandro - "... //The answer to that has been posted here countless times.// and that is? Please try to think of something better than the specious and clichéd; "Because of all the harm it does..."
Translation: "I know it's been answered before and the answer is (in a nutshell) 'because of all the harm it does'. I do not like this answer; I do not agree with it and it doesn't satisfy me. So I'm going to ignore it and wilfully lie to the readers of this post by pretending that the question hasn't actually been answered numerous times by numerous people in great detail."
Translation: "I know it's been answered before and the answer is (in a nutshell) 'because of all the harm it does'. I do not like this answer; I do not agree with it and it doesn't satisfy me. So I'm going to ignore it and wilfully lie to the readers of this post by pretending that the question hasn't actually been answered numerous times by numerous people in great detail."
birdie; A non sequitur, of course. You are correct that I do not agree with the "because of the harm it does" answer, and If that is my belief how can I be wilfully lying to not accept it? I don't have a "near pathological hatred of lying" but I do resent being accused of it.
RELIGION does not harm anyone; but the false interpretation of it does, even so, incalculably more have suffered by secular activities than under the misguided actions of religious fanatics.
If you know anything of history you can see unlimited accounts of suffering brought on humanity for entirely non-religious reasons.
I'll give you one of the thousands of examples, because I just happen to be reading about it*; in 1945 in the Baltic, the
Wilhelm Gustloff cruise liner was sunk by 3 torpedoes from a Russian S-13 submarine taking an estimated 9,400 lives - many of them children, (far outstripping the Titanic's 1,523). This being only a fraction of the total loss of life in WW11 and not even taking into consideration WW1 or the rest of that one century. Non of which had anything whatsoever to do with religion.
Perhaps you would care to give me some statistics of lives lost for 'genuine' religious reasons.
*'Death in the Baltic: The Word War II Sinking of the Wilhelm Gustloff.'
RELIGION does not harm anyone; but the false interpretation of it does, even so, incalculably more have suffered by secular activities than under the misguided actions of religious fanatics.
If you know anything of history you can see unlimited accounts of suffering brought on humanity for entirely non-religious reasons.
I'll give you one of the thousands of examples, because I just happen to be reading about it*; in 1945 in the Baltic, the
Wilhelm Gustloff cruise liner was sunk by 3 torpedoes from a Russian S-13 submarine taking an estimated 9,400 lives - many of them children, (far outstripping the Titanic's 1,523). This being only a fraction of the total loss of life in WW11 and not even taking into consideration WW1 or the rest of that one century. Non of which had anything whatsoever to do with religion.
Perhaps you would care to give me some statistics of lives lost for 'genuine' religious reasons.
*'Death in the Baltic: The Word War II Sinking of the Wilhelm Gustloff.'
Isn't my saying that the default AB answer; "Because of all the harm it does" is "specious and clichéd", an acknowledgement that it has been (tirelessly) offered in the past? I suggested you search for something better to substantiate why you expend so much time and energy arguing against something in which you do not believe. My question is; what really motivates you? Perhaps it's time, you, birdie et al, ought to honestly ask yourselves that question.
-- answer removed --
Khandro, //Isn't my saying that the default AB answer; "Because of all the harm it does" is "specious and clichéd", an acknowledgement that it has been (tirelessly) offered in the past?//
Yes, it is an acknowledgement of what’s been offered in the past – but initially you categorically denied that any explanation had ever been forthcoming … which leads me to conclude that your mistrust of our claimed motives emanates from an acute awareness of your own shameless insincerity. Don’t mistakenly endow others with your own calculating and suspicious mentality, and don’t assume that everyone else lives by your own dubiously pliable principles - they don’t. What I say is what I mean. Never doubt that.
//My question is; what really motivates you? Perhaps it's time, you, birdie et al, ought to honestly ask yourselves that question.//
No need. I hesitate to speak for Birdie, but I will - and I hope he doesn't mind. We know what motivates us, and you’ve been told repeatedly, so despite your phoney protestations, you have been left in no doubt whatsoever.
A couple of questions for you. If we didn’t believe religion to be detrimental to the well-being of this planet, what motive do you think we could possibly have for studying religious literature and exposing its lies – and why is it so very difficult for you and the other regular atheist bashers here to understand that, with no strings attached, some people really do care about others?
Yes, it is an acknowledgement of what’s been offered in the past – but initially you categorically denied that any explanation had ever been forthcoming … which leads me to conclude that your mistrust of our claimed motives emanates from an acute awareness of your own shameless insincerity. Don’t mistakenly endow others with your own calculating and suspicious mentality, and don’t assume that everyone else lives by your own dubiously pliable principles - they don’t. What I say is what I mean. Never doubt that.
//My question is; what really motivates you? Perhaps it's time, you, birdie et al, ought to honestly ask yourselves that question.//
No need. I hesitate to speak for Birdie, but I will - and I hope he doesn't mind. We know what motivates us, and you’ve been told repeatedly, so despite your phoney protestations, you have been left in no doubt whatsoever.
A couple of questions for you. If we didn’t believe religion to be detrimental to the well-being of this planet, what motive do you think we could possibly have for studying religious literature and exposing its lies – and why is it so very difficult for you and the other regular atheist bashers here to understand that, with no strings attached, some people really do care about others?
This is a load of detritus.
There are many people making a good living by saying they represent some indetectible entity which will give them pie in the sky.
In the 14/18 war. for instance, each side had priests who said they were fighting with God on their side. The same God? !!
How many impossible things can you believe - and even die for? Bloody fools
There are many people making a good living by saying they represent some indetectible entity which will give them pie in the sky.
In the 14/18 war. for instance, each side had priests who said they were fighting with God on their side. The same God? !!
How many impossible things can you believe - and even die for? Bloody fools
Khandro - "... You are correct that I do not agree with the "because of the harm it does" answer, and If that is my belief how can I be wilfully lying to not accept it?..."
You're misrepresenting quite a lot here. If you pose a question and do not agree with the answers that you are given, it does not give you licence to claim that your question has not been answered. If you're as stubborn as a mule on a particular subject then no end of valid arguments will shift your opinion. However, to then suggest that you've received no valid answers is a falsehood and a deliberate lie.
As to your challenge, "... Perhaps you would care to give me some statistics of lives lost for 'genuine' religious reasons..." I can't help but notice that you've placed the word 'genuine' in inverted commas (as I have). I have done so to clarify the meaning of my previous sentence. You have done so to allow yourself a get-out clause to any argument I may later present. If I list a series of religiously inspired atrocities, you will simply claim that most (or all) of them haven't been committed for 'genuine' religious reasons.
It's a cheap linguistic stunt. And an obvious one at that. Did you really think I wouldn't notice that you've deliberately attempted to load the dice? Shame on you.
You're misrepresenting quite a lot here. If you pose a question and do not agree with the answers that you are given, it does not give you licence to claim that your question has not been answered. If you're as stubborn as a mule on a particular subject then no end of valid arguments will shift your opinion. However, to then suggest that you've received no valid answers is a falsehood and a deliberate lie.
As to your challenge, "... Perhaps you would care to give me some statistics of lives lost for 'genuine' religious reasons..." I can't help but notice that you've placed the word 'genuine' in inverted commas (as I have). I have done so to clarify the meaning of my previous sentence. You have done so to allow yourself a get-out clause to any argument I may later present. If I list a series of religiously inspired atrocities, you will simply claim that most (or all) of them haven't been committed for 'genuine' religious reasons.
It's a cheap linguistic stunt. And an obvious one at that. Did you really think I wouldn't notice that you've deliberately attempted to load the dice? Shame on you.
Khandro - "... My question is; what really motivates you? Perhaps it's time, you, birdie et al, ought to honestly ask yourselves that question..."
My motivation to post to AB is nothing to do with you. Just as your motivation to do the same is nothing to do with me. I cannot speak for others. What I do care about is honestly, logic, rationality, clarity and honesty. Oh, and not forgetting, honesty.
My motivation to post to AB is nothing to do with you. Just as your motivation to do the same is nothing to do with me. I cannot speak for others. What I do care about is honestly, logic, rationality, clarity and honesty. Oh, and not forgetting, honesty.
// So you all take an interest in spirituality and religion... So what is it you actually believe then?\\
I also take an interest in and read fictional stories, to the extent and like thousands of others, belong to a book reading club.We discuss the stories and authors and sometimes the discussions become quite heated, we don't however believe the stories are true. It isn't necessary to believe in something to discuss it.
I also take an interest in and read fictional stories, to the extent and like thousands of others, belong to a book reading club.We discuss the stories and authors and sometimes the discussions become quite heated, we don't however believe the stories are true. It isn't necessary to believe in something to discuss it.
venator;
//There are many people making a good living by saying they represent some indetectible entity which will give them pie in the sky.//
Maybe, but there are far more making an even better living saying they represent their constituents and doing infinitely more damage ....... but that's another story. :-)
Khandro, you have misunderstood again, atheist are not the least interested in god , how could they be? Some atheists are interested in how seemingly intelligent people are taken in by all the flim flam and superstitious nonsense that is propagated in the name of 'god' and religion. Some atheists try to refute the misinformation promulgated by people who seem to be intelligent but sadly fail to convince in a rational discussion. You must be familiar with the type, you claim to have met a lot of them.
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