Religion, A Benefit To Mankind? Or Not?

[jomifl]

Would mankind now be better off had religion not been invented? supporting reasons for your opinion can be as controversial as you think the AB thought police will allow.

[jomifl]

/illegitimate daughter/ Thank you Sandy for that fine example of the guilt applied by religion. In another society his daughter wouldn't be illegtimate at all.

[tearinghair]

re kvalidir's comment (10.15), would you tell the vast army of volunteers who happen to believe in a God or gods that they should stop volunteering because you think they may be doing it for a personal feel-good factor or out of fear? I think a few organisations would disagree with you if so.

[sandyRoe]

Today she'd have been described as his 'Love Child'. But then both the church and state saw things differently.

[kvalidir]

What's the matter just with 'child' though Sandy?

Tearinghair- that is not what I said at all and I wouldn't presume to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do, that's usually the habit of the religious ;-)

[sandyRoe]

Whatever she was called, to have been sent unwillingly(if that was the case) to send the rest of her life in a convent was cruelty of the highest order.

[sandyRoe]

* to spend the rest... ^

[emmie]

sandyr, which illustrates exactly the point, the contradictory nature of any religion that can cause such harm to people, in the name of the faith, be it Protestant, Catholic, Muslim,

there are those who say, you don't believe in my faith, or go along with what i tell you, shot, crucified, tortured, set to the torch, or beheaded, its a mad system that people had over them for far too long, science has been held back because of it. scientists have had to fight the established churches to be heard, the great thinkers of our time have been held back and often got rid of because the ideas were considered heresy.

[sandyRoe]

I think in that case it was less about religion and more a way of sweeping an inconvenience out of his life.

[tearinghair]

I know that's not what you said, kvalidir, but it could be seen as a logical progression; if their work is not as valid as that of atheists and/or they're doing it for the 'wrong' reasons, perhaps their conscience should require them to stop? Just a thought.

[kvalidir]

No not really. Good deeds are good deeds in my book, I like people of all persuasions, religious and non religious, but there is a minority of religious people who do do 'good works' for the approval of their religious community and not for a lot else.

[tearinghair]

Does that matter, as long as they get done?

[tearinghair]

Sorry, you'd already said that it doesn't. Typing finger is trigger-happy!

[Khandro]

Among the most afflicted of mankind is surely the 'stupid intellectual', of whom I would rank Christopher Hitchens a clear exponent. In his delusioned book 'God is Not Great' he makes the crass statement "thanks to the telescope and the microscope, religion no longer offers an explanation of anything important".
But religion was never and is never meant to be an EXPLANATION of anything in the first place.
It's like saying that thanks to the invention of the Kenwood mixer, we now no longer need Beethoven.

[jomifl]

Hi Khandro, you have returned intellectually refreshed I see :o) Did god create Beethoven?

[vulcan42]

The first line in the bible is a pretty good explanation according to religion.

[jomifl]

Khandro, you appear to have a difference of opinion with the late Christopher Hitchens as to what is 'important'. Certainly the microscope and the telescope added to the sum of human knowledge and understanding which has done more for mankind than religion. Perhaps they would have been invented sooner were it not for the dead hand of organised religion.

[China Doll]

But is that what would have happened? Would thefe havd bden other inspirations? I just don't think you can write the whole thing off. And wigh regards to sciences, yes, now they definitely do hamper, but something in my teeny brain is telling me that medicine (st least initially) did benefit with religious influence.

I am actually an athiest myself and I sould love to see religion chucked out of our politics and our schools; I'm just really unsure and extremely interested in whether hypotheticallyr erradicating it from our history would have the desired outcomd of less blood shed (am of the opinion man will always find novel ways to hurt each other) and us being more advanced in general as a society.

[jomifl]

China, that was the point of my question, ignoring the usual believer/ non-believer squabbling how might things have panned out without religion and belief. Religion is such a part of everybody's thinking (even atheists can't avoid being touched by it) that it seems impossible to envisage a world without it..

[Khandro]

Vulcan; //The first line in the bible is a pretty good explanation according to religion.//
Metaphor, and from another age! In fact taking Christianity as an example, the new testament has next to nothing to say about God as a creator.
Hi Jomifl! Yes back, well travelled, and despite various parking and speeding fines, I haven't quite lost my faith in either religion or humanity :-)

[naomi24]

Yes, man would have been better off without religion. It is an unnecessary encumbrance to the human psyche that purposefully exacerbates conflict and separation. Morality and regulated social structure existed long before religion as we know it, and so the claim that without religion there can be no morality is one of the greatest lies ever told. It’s quite evident that the religious are often prepared to abandon decent codes of human ethics in support of their chosen brand, and therefore it is true to say that religion produces a negative effect not only upon the intellect but upon morality itself – and hence upon the world at large.

This is interesting:

http://www.centerforinquiry.net/blogs/entry/morality_evolved_first_long_before_religion/

Khandro, //In fact taking Christianity as an example, the new testament has next to nothing to say about God as a creator.//

Why would it? It depends upon the Old Testament to prop up its claims.