Is Islam A Dangerous Ideology?

[vetuste_ennemi]

Thanks for agreeing to join my thread, Andy.

I'm going to present the most obvious argument for the dangers inherent in Islam first. But it's not my main argument. That would exist independent of any act of "terror". I'll state that argument in a future post.

The anecdotal evidence (we see it on the TV and read it in our newspapers every day) suggests yes, Islam is dangerous. Everybody recognises a link OF SOME KIND between Islam and atrocities committed world-wide almost daily. The first clue is the perpetrators' frequent cry of "Allahu Akbar!" - Allah is greater or Allah is greatest - as they kill cartoonists, behead Christians or whatever. But we have more than that - the perpetrators of the atrocities all CLAIM they are followers of Mohammed and use (possibly MISUSE) the holy texts of Islam to justify many of their actions. ISIS is the most egregious example. It's core mission is the re-establishment of the Muslim Caliphate through holy war. Now if, I stress IF, Islam's sacred texts DO justify the aims and methods of groups like ISIS, then no-one would deny that Islam IS, at least potentially, a threat.

So, for starters, I'd like Andy or whomever to say whether they think groups like ISIS or the Charlie Hebdo murderers have a TOTALLY distorted view of Islam, or maybe have a more "nuanced" view about the relationship between the radicals and their claimed religion.

[Svejk]

I don't understand why, unless as a smokescreen, people insist on bringing other religions, or history, into any discussion about Islam.
There is one religion causing mayhem in the world today and they're not Catholics, Hindus or even the old favourite, the Westboro Baptist Church.

[Answerprancer]

I think christianity and more specifically roman catholicism is just as dangerous.

[Svejk]

Really. You put a list of Catholic terrorist attacks up.
And I'll put the Muslim one up.

[ummmm]

I was raised a Catholic and was never taught to hate someone because they aren't Catholic.

[Svejk]

Same as that Ummmm. And I've stopped going to church but no-ones put a death sentence on me. (yet)

[ummmm]

I have 3 children and have never been married. And I take contraception....

[Hypognosis]

@keyplus90

//How many Muslim countries have been invaded by the USA and West recently? //

Somalia:- 20 UN troops (Pakistani contingent) killed by Aidid's rebels. US try to oust him but failed.
Count this one?
Kuwait:- Invaded by Saddam; Liberated by Western coalition, returned to its populace.
Count this one?
Iraq:- Invaded, regime changed and returned to its populace.
Count this one?
Afghanistan:- Invaded, Taliban pushed back to the mountains, vaguely cooperative new government installed; still trying to build that wretched dam. Count=1 for "invasion ongoing"
Saudi Arabia:- Several military bases built. Regarded by Osama Bin Laden as an occupation force but he and his followers would probably be viewed as fringe weirdos by the rest of the country.

//
How many Western countries have been invaded by Muslims recently?
//
With deadly intent? Three
USA:- 9/11 attacks, various "blue-on-blue" rogue soldier attacks inside military bases; California jihadist attack
UK:- 7/7 bombings; ricin plot
France:- Bataclan siege.

If arriving without weapons counts as "invasion" then it is every country west of Turkey. (They are strangely averse to Russia and the other -stans, whete they'd blend right in with existing Muslims there. Also averse to Spain but there is historicsl enmity there).

//
How many Muslims have been killed due to the direct and indirect involvement of USA and the West in recent years?
//

Probably in 6 figures but Assad is reckoned to have killed close to 250k and who knows how many Saddam killed, what with the Iran/Iraq war (total ~1million) and the marsh Arabs (no-one kept count). Bumping off politically inconvenient individuals was just a hobby, only in the hundreds.

//
How many Westerns have been killed in the same amount of time?
//

Including 9/11, probably under 10,000. Suicide attackers only strike once, each, whilst planes, tanks, helicopters and drones strike many times.

//
How many head of states from Muslim countries been killed or toppled in recent times?
//

Was Zia a western hit, or an inside job?
Saddam=1
Arafat:- no definitive attribution yet. Do you lump Russia in with "the west"?
Iranian leader before the Shah=2
Ghaddafi=3 although was that really the west's doing? We needed that light-sweet crude to thin out the gloopy Arabian stuff and he kept the place stable so we tolerated him for decades, knowing he wasn't a paragon of virtue.
Mrs Ghandi? Inside job(??)
I can't think of any others.

//
How many Western counties heads have been killed or toppled during the same time by Muslims?
//

Okay: none. They know which side their bread is buttered. Make money; raise kids. Why get yourself jailed or shot over killing some *** in a suit?

//
How many Afghans, Iraqis, Libyans and Syrians migrated from their countries before their countries were invaded?
//

Nobody was keeping count but probably fewer than 10,000 from each country.

//
Do you call those people Muslim who buy "Islam for dummies" before going for Jihad?
//

Someone who buys "engineering for dummies" wants to become an engineer and books like that are to help you bluff your way through the interview and not seem ignorant or inexperienced. Thus, the type you refer to I would call "wannabe" Muslims.

Perhaps we should explore (in some other thread) how someone can reach age 18 without having been subject to parental, faith school, or Mosque influence such that they might need a book like that, to "swot up", at the last minute, as they set off for jihad. (Interesting parallel with the tragic "childrens' crusade", of medievsk times, maybe?)

//
Finally I am sure I will not get straight answers to any of these questions.
//

I prefer to answer, serpently. ;-)

[naomi24]

Khandro, ///n.; // He was interested only in the Jews.//

True, he didn't have much to say about the Danes or the Australian aborigines, ///

That isn’t worthy of a considered response.

//…..though what he said would be applicable to them too. //

No, Khandro, it wouldn’t. Jesus made it quite clear that he spoke only to the Jews - "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." Matthew 15:24 - and in confirmation of that he enjoined his audience to keep Jewish law, which certainly wouldn’t have been applicable to any non-Jew.

//do you have a problem with his Jewishness?//

I don’t - but you, and the millions more who claim Jesus to have been something he wasn’t, do.

Svejk, // don't understand why, unless as a smokescreen, people insist on bringing other religions, or history, into any discussion about Islam.//

A smokescreen is precisely what it is. Islam does not compare to any other religion on earth, but for the poorly educated who, rather than learn, latch on to obligatory political correctness, truth is often a bitter pill to swallow.

[Svejk]

Maybe the riots in Molenbeek will make them think again, Naomi.

[naomi24]

Doubt it.

[Khandro]

naomi; You continually quote that passage (which should anyway be seen in it's context) but it isn't enough, it blinds you to a whole raft of other recorded events, some outlined and explained briefly here;

http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-Jews-only.html

v_e, Sorry to stray so.

[naomi24]

Khandro, offering me a Christian website in order to endorse your argument doesn’t work. Offer me something that comes from a position of neutrality and it might be worth my while reading it. Despite what those who came after him claimed, and still claim, Jesus was never anything other than a Jew. That’s it.

[Khandro]

^ In your attempts to always have the last word your arguments simply become weaker. The link above cannot be dismissed because it is "a Christian website". What it quotes are biblical facts! (Samaritans etc.) and are therefore just as equally valid as the quote you make.

[naomi24]

Khandro, if your argument held water I wouldn’t get the last word – but then you’re clearly jumping on the bandwagon of others around here whose arguments are equally flimsy. That is a Christian website promoting the Christian concept that Jesus was God incarnate and it is therefore not something that I can give serious consideration to. I’m interested in historical fact – not in fanciful ideas – not that there’s any real evidence that Jesus existed at all, although if he did it’s highly unlikely that, as a Jewish rabbi, his ‘mission’ would have encompassed outsiders. Therein arose the disagreements between the people who had known Jesus personally and the founder of Christianity – St Paul, who didn’t know him personally – so I don’t think there can be any doubt about where Jesus’ true interests resided.

Actually I’m at a loss to understand why you are presenting such a website to me anyway. Have you abandoned your ideas of Buddhism and the theory you were once so fond of that Jesus escaped death on the cross? Apparently so.

This thread is supposed to be about Islam so rather than derail it any further, if you want to continue along these lines I suggest you post something separately where I’ll be happy to join you – that’s if you’ve changed your mind about attempting to shut me up. ;o)

[Khandro]

n.// Have you abandoned your ideas of Buddhism and the theory you were once so fond of that Jesus escaped death on the cross?//

No to both.

[naomi24]

Mmmm...

[beso]

beso > khandro //I find it incredible that you don't know [that Jesus endorsed the Old Testament] well enough to avoid taking up an argument on that line.//

Looks like khandro has thought better of pursuing his ill considered defence of Jesus' teachings not being fascist.

[Khandro]

beso; Explain why you think that Jesus' teachings are 'fascist'. I suggest you are not only ignorant of the teachings but also of the meaning of 'fascism'.

[beso]

fascism: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/fascism?s=t

This description fits the the Abrahamic doctrines perfectly.

Apparently you missed where I pointed out that Jesus explicitly endorsed the doctrines of the Old Testament. If you cannot see the fascism in that text then you clearly haven't read it.

[Khandro]

beso; Christianity is, and always was optional, and though the Koran purports to be "the word of God", the bible of the old testament is only inspired by God. So if it is an option and is also not a decree, why do you think it is fascist?

As to you saying Jesus "endorsed" the old testament, -implying full acceptance of everything therein- he didn't, he referred to certain aspects and said he would "fulfill" it; Mathew 5:17-20.