Isis: The Origins Of Violence

[naomi24]

Did anyone see this on Channel 4 last night? I recorded it and will hopefully watch it sometime today, but this from the London Evening Standard and makes interesting reading.
http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/interview-historian-tom-holland-on-isis-receiving-death-threats-and-why-there-is-a-civil-war-in-the-a3541236.html
Tom Holland finishes by saying , “Ever since Rushdie, people have a sense that if you say anything negative about Islam, angry Muslims will protest. But there’s a further anxiety that if you insult Muslims, you’re a racist. There’s a conflation. Both of those anxieties have a chilling effect on questioning a fundamental issue: to what extent is there an ideological dimension to what is being done in Islam’s name? It seems there is a considerable ideological dimension.”

Holland believes it is better that we discuss this openly. “People acknowledge it but are afraid to say it. That played a substantial part in the Dutch and French elections — a feeling of resentment that people aren’t allowed to express it. It’s better that we open the windows — for Muslims too. Because all the time, this is metastasising away. This is like refusing to go to the dentist when you have a toothache. Sooner or later, it will fall out and your jaw will go rotten.”

Needless to say perhaps, I think he’s absolutely right.

[Old_Geezer]

Isn't whether this is done in the name of Islam, or not, only something Muslims can debate and agree on ? Whilst others may wish there to be an agreement all others can do is fight those that commit atrocities and push back those who desire a nation state where such is allowed.

[Garaman]

//But there’s a further anxiety that if you insult Muslims, you’re a racist. //

The wording of that concerns me a bit. If it had said, ‘if you were to insult a Muslim’ I wouldn’t have a problem, but if you insult Muslims then you might well be classified as a racist. I mean if you were to hit someone you might not be a violent person, but if you hit people you probably are.

I agree it is a subject that needs discussing openly.

[naomi24]

Garaman, I’m not entirely sure that’s what he means. I think he’s probably referring to drawing cartoons of Mohammed and that sort of thing rather than insulting anyone on a personal level.

[Kathyan]

How can you be racist against a religion?

[naomi24]

Strictly speaking, you can’t, but since Islam embraces a culture that is 'foreign' to our own, I suppose in that respect those who insult Islam could be deemed racist. It’s a blurred line.

[naomi24]

Having watched about three quarters of this programme, I had to turn it off. 'Harrowing' doesn't cover it. I shall watch the rest, but another day.

[vetuste_ennemi]

The program helped a bit. But the ISIS stuff is a distraction. ISIS will go, but the ideology which lends itself so easily to bullying at best and atrocity at the worst is as old as Islam itself. Love's a score in tennis, but herpes is forever.

[Garaman]

Tom Holland says 'Driving a wedge between Muslims and non-Muslims through atrocities is part of Isis’s strategy.' The problem facing The Government is that it has to try and tackle Isis without helping them drive the wedge.

[Garaman]

Birdie, you believe that if you want. Like Tom Holland I believe that Isis is trying to turn all Muslims against non-Muslims, and how Isis aims to do that is by first turning non-Muslims against all Muslims. I don’t want to help Isis do that.

The Koran was around before the terror attacks started btw.

[EDDIE51]

Not part of the answer, but the bodyguard who said ,'' you are in sniper range , if you hear a crack drop to the ground'' obviously did not know a rifle bullet travels faster than the speed of sound! You would be dead before you heard the shot.
The writer is 100% correct though .

[Old_Geezer]

The sniper may have been aiming for one of your buddies. Worth hitting the ground anyway.

[mibn2cweus]

//The Koran was around before the terror attacks started btw.//

Go figure . . .

[vetuste_ennemi]

//...bodyguard who said ,'' you are in sniper range , if you hear a crack drop to the ground'' obviously did not know a rifle bullet travels faster than the speed of sound! You would be dead before you heard the shot.//

Reminds me of the delightful "..like the way you're thinking" joke. It starts with:

"Hymie, if there are ten birds sitting on a fence and one gets shot, how many are left?".
"None, Miss."

The punchline is:

"No, Miss, it's the one with the wedding ring. But I like the way you're thinking."

[douglas9401]

As a public service:


A teacher asks her class, "If there are 5 birds sitting on a fence and you shoot one of them, how many will be left?" She calls on little Johnny.

"None, they all fly away with the first gunshot."

The teacher replies, "The correct answer is 4, but I like your thinking."

Then little Johnny says,
"I have a question for YOU.There are three women sitting on a bench having ice cream. One is delicately licking the sides of the triple scoop of ice cream. The second is gobbling down the top and sucking the cone. The third is biting off the top of the ice cream. Which one is married?"

The teacher, blushing a great deal, replies,
"Well I suppose the one that's gobbled down the top and sucked the cone."

"The correct answer is the one with the wedding ring on...

.....but I like your thinking."