In The Beginning ........

[Theland]

If you are a materialistic secular atheist, then by definition, you believe that everything, that is all matter, energy, space, time and physical laws are contained within the universe.
Therefore, the cause of the universes existence must also be included somewhere in that list.
So, based on the latest from science and your own experiences and opinions, given that you preclude any outside agency, that is, God, as a cause, are you happy to shrug off the question of origin, and simply say, "don't know," or do you have a sensible theory you would be willing to defend?

[Jackdaw33]

My brain hurts!

[naomi24]

//given that you preclude any outside agency, that is, God, as a cause, are you happy to shrug off the question of origin, and simply say, "don't know,"//

Yes, I am, because it's the only rational thing that anyone can say. You’re running ahead of yourself, Theland. Tell me who or what ‘God’ is – and provide the evidence to support your claim – and I’ll consider it.

[smjones]

I don't believe that anyone with any scientific credibility could claim to be an atheist without ignoring the fact that there are many unknown things. Therefore if the origin of the universe, be it God or external agency as you put it is real, it is very possible that the existence of such is outside the current knowledge of a person, however intelligent they may be; no one knows everything!

[Old_Geezer]

There are IMO likely many universes.

[Old_Geezer]

Origin comes from uncertainty principle. Anything can happen and so will.

[Old_Geezer]

It is the agnostics that have a lack of faith, not atheists (or lack of belief if one must put it like that). Atheists have a strong belief that gods do not exist.

[mibn2cweus]

I have yet to hear any explanation for how an alledged god created the universe that come anywhere near being as sensible as the probability that rational minds do not evolve . . . overnight.

[mibn2cweus]

//Atheists have a strong belief that gods do not exist.//

Not believing gods do exist is not believing they don't . . . but some might.

[Old_Geezer]

That states the same thing in different words.

[naomi24]

OG, not so. Atheism is an absence of belief. The possibility of the existence of supernatural creatures having having been considered has been dismissed – like fairies and Santa Claus. No belief necessary.

[mibn2cweus]

//It is the agnostics that have a lack of faith, not atheists (or lack of belief if one must put it like that).//

Agnostics have a strong belief (faith) that the answer to whether gods exist or not is unknowable.

[Patsy33]

Just be...and relax..

[Old_Geezer]

I disagree. If one isn't sure one is in the agnostics camp and have no need of another.

Agnostics merely point out that one can not know as far as they can tell. A simple logical conclusion given the evidence, or more accurately, lack of it. That stated a large hand pointing down from the sky accompanied by a booming voice might change their mind.

[ToraToraTora]

Let's see centuries of science v moronic fairy tale? That's a tough one! PMSL!

[jim360]

I doubt anyone has, or ever will, come up with a theory to explain the origin of the Universe that can be meaningfully tested. Still, it's not too hard to see, even in our limited (present) understanding, hints of how a universe could spontaneously form. OG has already mentioned the Uncertainty Principle -- although I'm not sure his interpretation afterwards is the clearest -- and, on its own, that can provide the hint I mean.

I'm too tired to go too far into it, but the point is essentially that "nothing" is too exact a state, so that there may be no such thing as a perfect vacuum. By extension, there's probably no such thing as a perfect state of utter oblivion in which nothing exists at all, and there is not even a space and time to define the existence of nothing.

[atalanta]

I don't believe in anything you can't prove.
I claim to be an atheist simply because I do not believe, not because I believe there isn't . . . I have no such belief.

[mibn2cweus]

Basically, cause and effect implies the existence of time which, like conscious and belief in gods, is an emergent property of the universe which gave rise to them.

[Theland]

And the first cause is what?
Something outside of the universe obviously.
The uncertainty principle is within the universe.

[jim360]

Tell me what you mean by "outside the universe", and then your rebuttal might make some sense. As it is... well, I'm hardly claiming to have solved the problem, but it seems plausible to me that the Universe was effectively self-causing.