Without Christianity....

[Khandro]

........ would we have western values? Even Richard Dawkins appears to acknowledge this debt. Is his atheistic stance softening? I see him now referred to as an 'agnostic' (as well as a secularist and humanist).
Recently, sitting in Winchester Cathedral listening to the peal of the bells he tweeted; 'So much nicer than the aggressive-sounding "Allahu Akhbar", or is that just my cultural upbringing?'
Does this not show him as someone brought up in a Christian civilization which he can not eschew, and if he, the guru of several ABers cannot, can they?

[Calicogirl]

I'm not really sure why anyone would think importing a middle eastern religion ( ANY middle eastern religion) would result in a westernised society. It's taken us a long time to shake off the trapping of patriachy which are allied with it, so no I don't think it's as much of a designator of Western culture as you would like to think, there was a western culture long before Christianity x

[jackthehat]

That is an impossible question to answer.
Christianity has been all-pervading for 2000 years and until fairly recent times, there was little that could be advanced outside of its mighty grasp. Scientific advancement was certainly stifled; I wonder where we would have been now if 'that' hadn't been the case.
Only a fool would believe that the 'Church' has not been responsible for inspiring beautiful Art, Music and Architecture; most of which is fully appreciated today.
However, it *is* possible to enjoy all of the above whilst rejecting the existence of 'Creator' it was all created to glorify.

[nailit]

Western civilisation has a Christian Heritage, not a middle eastern one, so I don't see what the problem is with Dawkins' tweet. However we must also remember that a part of that heritage was known as the Dark Ages with its attendant witch burnings, the suppression of science (Galileo etc) and the executions of those that disagreed with the church of the day.

Modern day 'western values' are not necessarily 'Christian'...

[naomi24]

Who describes him as an agnostic?

//..the peal of the bells he tweeted; 'So much nicer than the aggressive-sounding "Allahu Akhbar", or is that just my cultural upbringing?' Does this not show him as someone brought up in a Christian civilization which he can not eschew//

I think your imagination is running away with you Khandro. Few would deny that we were brought up in a Christian culture – but I wouldn’t regard his question as evidence that he has changed his mind. I read his tweet simply as an observation that the sound of melodious church bells is more pleasing to the ear than the wailing of the muezzin. It is to me too – but as he muses, that probably results from having been raised in a Christian culture. Similarly, I prefer to hear Puccini rather than Bollywood.

[Theland]

Christianity is the backdrop of our western society.
It affects us.
For the better.

[naomi24]

That'll be the Christianity that you reject then Theland.

[Theland]

Eh? What?

[Old_Geezer]

Religion gave social adhesion at a time when nothing better was probable. That doesn't mean such control still appropriate in these days of science and enlightenment. That's not to say all that ecists in reality, is material, but one no longer needs religion to get folk to behave in a socially acceptable manner. Indeed it can now have the opposite effect. One needs to separate religion's stance on spiritual issues from it's affect on things corporeal, and not tie the two as if they were the same thing.

[Old_Geezer]

EXISTS

[Theland]

The Christianity of J. C. Ryle, first bishop of Liverpool, was the real thing. None of the wishy washy liberal modernist claptrap we get today from the COE.
No social agenda just the pure gospel.
His message did much to frame modern society but has now been drowned out by politically correct, inclusive, ecumenical and diversity bull and the true gospel is a voice in the wilderness.

[THECORBYLOON]

No YouTube links about the Bish?

[woofgang]

I used to hear the call to prayers when we were loading crude oil in the Gulf. I quite liked it and didn’t think it sounded aggressive.

[Calicogirl]

Yeah famous for evangelising working class folks whether they liked it or not Corby :)

[237SJ]

I like hearing the call to prayer in the Mid East. Not as intrusive as church bells and it doesn't last so long )

[Theland]

Wolf - I too was a Tankerman.

[jno]

lol, Calcogirl, giving the British a little of what they habitually gave benighted natives round the world?

[Theland]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._C._Ryle

God bless this man and his legacy.

[nailit]

Theland, you are picking out a single person to support ur view, what about the rest of Christianised western values?
The Papacy up until Henry viii? The murderer John Calvin? The Jew hater Luther? Etc?

[Theland]

Yes a lot to unpick.
I have no intention of unpicking it.
If you think You are on a winner here, well done you.
Only have the energy to make my statements, not get into a bunfight.

[bainbrig]

Calico Not sure whether your highly intelligent (and amusing) comment “I'm not really sure why anyone would think importing a middle eastern religion ( ANY middle eastern religion) would result in a westernised society” has been recognised by your present readership, where any mention of the ‘middle east’ is guaranteed to raise hackles.

I salute you.

BillB