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Lenin's Atheism
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When Lenin, (so much admired by some of our current prominent politicians!) seized power in 1917, the Bolsheviks integrated atheism into their vision of heaven on earth. The dream of mass atheism seemed the key to Russia's salvation, but it was not to be & there is now a resurgence of orthodox & for all I know, other religious observances in Russia.
New atheists - several on AB - seem to espouse a secular nation.
The philosopher George Santayana once famously said, "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat its mistakes., those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it.
Do atheists, not understand this object lesson?
New atheists - several on AB - seem to espouse a secular nation.
The philosopher George Santayana once famously said, "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat its mistakes., those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it.
Do atheists, not understand this object lesson?
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Please excuse an aside: In the late Sixties the Scientologists (at least that is as I remember it) had a hang-out near the corner of Oxford Street and Tottenham Court Road. They tried to pull in people off the street for what they said was an IQ test. I had time on my hands and went in. They quickly booted me out though as I had the audacity of referring to communism as a form of religion. I still hold the view that, psychologically and socially, the line between religion and other forms of strongly held, vociferous and organised/banded ideology is barely discernible in some cases and rarely very sharp. Today we see this clearly demonstrated in more than one example. Lots of people approach politics as an ideology so we have a rich field for our observations.
Very true Andy.
In the case of Russia (which has always had a multiplicity of religions as you expect in such a large country) the main Orthodox religion has always been virtually indistinguishable from the sense of national identity which is why Lenin was on a loser from the start and religion was tolerated in the Soviet Union long before the downfall of communism.
However although Putin likes to pass himself off as a devout Christian, recent laws in Russia have clamped down on missionaries, the church also falling foul of laws on NGOs and anti terrorism.
In the case of Russia (which has always had a multiplicity of religions as you expect in such a large country) the main Orthodox religion has always been virtually indistinguishable from the sense of national identity which is why Lenin was on a loser from the start and religion was tolerated in the Soviet Union long before the downfall of communism.
However although Putin likes to pass himself off as a devout Christian, recent laws in Russia have clamped down on missionaries, the church also falling foul of laws on NGOs and anti terrorism.
William Harwood - “The difference between faith and insanity is that faith is the ability to hold firmly to a conclusion that is incompatible with the evidence, whereas insanity is the ability to hold firmly to a conclusion that is incompatible with the evidence."
This is the same.
I rest my case and I'll go and get my coat.
This is the same.
I rest my case and I'll go and get my coat.
DTC; //William Harwood // ? I'm fairly well-read, but I've never heard of him; are you a devotee?
mibn; //Lenin's distaste for religion was that he saw it as a tool used by repressive regimes to subdue the masses//
Unlike communism ?
TTT; //despite the many problems of communism etc it is laudable to want a society without religion.//
Why?
mibn; //Lenin's distaste for religion was that he saw it as a tool used by repressive regimes to subdue the masses//
Unlike communism ?
TTT; //despite the many problems of communism etc it is laudable to want a society without religion.//
Why?
//The dream of mass atheism seemed the key to Russia's salvation//
Seemed to you, or seemed generally? I suspect the former. You have the audacity to spout 'object lessons' to others but how much history have you actually read, Khandro? Lenin had rather more than religion on his mind. There were always working churches in Russia…. granted not supported or encouraged by the state, but working nonetheless. And before you object, did you ever go to Communist Russia and see it first hand? Still, it suits your purpose to lay the blame at the door of atheism so that’s what you’ll do. Incidentally, if you want to stick labels on anyone I’d thank you to leave me out.
Seemed to you, or seemed generally? I suspect the former. You have the audacity to spout 'object lessons' to others but how much history have you actually read, Khandro? Lenin had rather more than religion on his mind. There were always working churches in Russia…. granted not supported or encouraged by the state, but working nonetheless. And before you object, did you ever go to Communist Russia and see it first hand? Still, it suits your purpose to lay the blame at the door of atheism so that’s what you’ll do. Incidentally, if you want to stick labels on anyone I’d thank you to leave me out.
//Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat its mistakes., those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it.//
Very, very unlikely. People more usually repeat what is "normal" and familiar. I don't agree with that at all. Not all cliches make sense.
Atheism is obviously older than religion, what is a "new atheist"?
Very, very unlikely. People more usually repeat what is "normal" and familiar. I don't agree with that at all. Not all cliches make sense.
Atheism is obviously older than religion, what is a "new atheist"?
Naomi; //did you ever go to Communist Russia and see it first hand? //
No I didn't, but I went to other communist countries & I paid heed to Alexander Solzhenitsyn who blamed atheism for Russia's catastrophes in his 'Men Have Forgotten God' speech at the London Guildhall (in which he also lamented the blasphemies of Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' by the way).
No I didn't, but I went to other communist countries & I paid heed to Alexander Solzhenitsyn who blamed atheism for Russia's catastrophes in his 'Men Have Forgotten God' speech at the London Guildhall (in which he also lamented the blasphemies of Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' by the way).
Communism arguably is simply another belief system. Lenin merely replaced one with another, or tried to.
It’s not very constructive to damn all religion as terrible, and rather pointless, as history shows - and not just the history of the Soviet Union - that it seems to be something inborn in many of us to believe in a god. And no doubt always will.
It’s not very constructive to damn all religion as terrible, and rather pointless, as history shows - and not just the history of the Soviet Union - that it seems to be something inborn in many of us to believe in a god. And no doubt always will.
^
"blasphemies of Monty Python's 'Life Of Brian'...." Now you're beginning to sound like a Zealot, Khandro. I saw that film on the Garrison cinema, back in the 70s, outside which, after the showing, the religious heads of the 3 Garrison churches were waiting to ambush us as we left. They were handing out hastily printed leaflets inviting the cinema goers to church 'sessions' the following Sunday to discuss the "Blasphemous content" of the film. The cinema held about 150 people and there weren't many empty seats. However, i am reliably informed that the 3 churches total attendance for these 'sessions' was in single figures.
"blasphemies of Monty Python's 'Life Of Brian'...." Now you're beginning to sound like a Zealot, Khandro. I saw that film on the Garrison cinema, back in the 70s, outside which, after the showing, the religious heads of the 3 Garrison churches were waiting to ambush us as we left. They were handing out hastily printed leaflets inviting the cinema goers to church 'sessions' the following Sunday to discuss the "Blasphemous content" of the film. The cinema held about 150 people and there weren't many empty seats. However, i am reliably informed that the 3 churches total attendance for these 'sessions' was in single figures.
// I paid heed to Alexander Solzhenitsyn who blamed atheism for Russia's catastrophes in his 'Men Have Forgotten God' speech //
Khandro, no surprise you quote someone else – very rarely do you offer a personal opinion - but Solzhenitsyn, on this occasion, wasn’t original either. He simply reiterated what others said. Communism doesn’t arise from atheism and it's a nonsense to claim it does. In fact, as I child I recall being taught that Jesus was a Communist, which when you consider the caring, sharing lie that is Communism, makes some sense.
Your reference to the blasphemies of Monty Python’s Life of Brian is interesting. A good topic for discussion. I’ll post a separate thread.
Khandro, no surprise you quote someone else – very rarely do you offer a personal opinion - but Solzhenitsyn, on this occasion, wasn’t original either. He simply reiterated what others said. Communism doesn’t arise from atheism and it's a nonsense to claim it does. In fact, as I child I recall being taught that Jesus was a Communist, which when you consider the caring, sharing lie that is Communism, makes some sense.
Your reference to the blasphemies of Monty Python’s Life of Brian is interesting. A good topic for discussion. I’ll post a separate thread.
Khandro, //Seemed to Lenin.
Are you wearing the right glasses this morning?//
I am indeed but you need to check yours. The Spectator article you pinched that - and the rest of your post from - doesn’t claim it came from Lenin. It's a good idea to post an acknowledgement of your source, Khandro. Failing to do so gives people the impression that your posts are all your own work.
Are you wearing the right glasses this morning?//
I am indeed but you need to check yours. The Spectator article you pinched that - and the rest of your post from - doesn’t claim it came from Lenin. It's a good idea to post an acknowledgement of your source, Khandro. Failing to do so gives people the impression that your posts are all your own work.
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