Everything . . .

[mibn2cweus]

any (other) questions?

[naomi24]

Oh, and according to my materialistic world my answer is and always has been ‘I don’t know’.

[Theland]

"I don't know," could mean therefore that you are an agnostic, rather than an atheist.
Would you confirm or deny if my assumption is right or not?

Is it therefore possible that you have not ruled out the existence of a creator God, but just lack the evidence, whilst keeping an open mind?
Really curious.

[naomi24]

Theland, your assumption is not right. I don’t know how the universe came into being but that it happened by supernatural means is not a consideration. Not in the least. It’s a silly notion. Nothing is ‘supernatural’.

[hereIam]

Spirits are, aren't they ?

[naomi24]

I don't believe so, hereIam. We don't understand what or why or how - but it doesn't follow that we never will.

[hereIam]

I personally think spirits are supernatural naomi and I firmly believe they exist because of many things that happened after Dad's passing and in particular his message to me when I was grieving for Mum. I know I have mentioned it before, but it was SO real and so amazing and when I am at my lowest ebb and missing them badly (particularly at this time of year) it helps to get me through.

[Theland]

"I don't know . . . . .", yet you rule out supernatural means?
That doesn't make sense.
If you rule out supernatural means then you must know something to rule it out?

[Old_Geezer]

supernatural
(of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding

Our understanding is imperfect and always likely to so. Consequently anything inadequately explained comes under the heading 'supernatural'.

No, one can reject something because one knows nothing about it and believes no one else does either, so it probably doesn't exist.

[mibn2cweus]

If it ain't natural (God for one) than by all accounts . . . it's manmade.

[mibn2cweus]

Sorry, the proofreader is on holiday.

[Theland]

Mibs - Rule out everything except what exists in our universe.
So the cause of our universe must therefore be self contained?
Hmmm.
Strange.
Even Penrose and Hawking didn't go that far.

[naomi24]

HereIam, sorry, I didn’t make myself clear. Odd things happen - of that I have no doubt. We don’t yet understand how or why but there is nothing whatsoever to give us reason to attribute it to a supernatural source. It stands to reason that everything in nature is natural - even God - if he exists.

[Theland]

"Everything in nature is natural . . . ."
True.
So is the electromagnetic spectrum, but we are only aware of a very small part of it, that is revealed to us as visible light.

[naomi24]

That's the general idea, Theland.

[Theland]

It must be Christmas, we have just agreed on something :-)

[mibn2cweus]

Time and place are dimensions within the universe. Causality implies the existence and an interdependency of all three. To ask, 'What happened before there was anything?' implies that time can exist in a void. I don't anticipate hearing from anyone whose been there any time soon.

[naomi24]

You've had a whoosh moment, Theland.

[mibn2cweus]

Proofreader can expect a raise when they get back.

[Theland]

I shall treasure this moment :-)

[naomi24]

Why?