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God's Plan
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Following on from the horrific news of a little boy killed by lightning -
I am genuinly intrigued to hread how any of our Christian contributors can begin to reconcile this tragedy with the notion that their 'loving' God, who clearly allowed it to happen, could let such a loss be felt by his parents and family.
What part of 'God's Plan' is working here?
I am genuinly intrigued to hread how any of our Christian contributors can begin to reconcile this tragedy with the notion that their 'loving' God, who clearly allowed it to happen, could let such a loss be felt by his parents and family.
What part of 'God's Plan' is working here?
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The idea that god might have a plan which involves causing (or preventing) individual accidents to individual creatures is totally puerile and only embraced by religious simpletons. If life was that easy, then religious believers in such stuff would have long ago won the battle; but they haven't, so they have to revert to 'oh, god moves in mysterious ways.'
This is a bit out there, maybe.... Obviously I can't speak for religion, but may be the same principle...
Maybe, overall, we do 'need" tragedies to happen, accidents, unfairness, evilness and so on. As, if everyone was perfect, with perfect lives, we would have no need of anything like compassion, empathy, kindness, support, or many other human qualities. They would be unnecessary.
As a mild, and maybe irrelevant example, my youngest son feels very little sense of physical pain... and unlike my others, managed to break his arm, wrist, leg and ankle, by the time he was about 12, because.... why not? No pain, so little avoidance.
So, maybe there is a reason, although that is no doubt little comfort to individuals.
Maybe, overall, we do 'need" tragedies to happen, accidents, unfairness, evilness and so on. As, if everyone was perfect, with perfect lives, we would have no need of anything like compassion, empathy, kindness, support, or many other human qualities. They would be unnecessary.
As a mild, and maybe irrelevant example, my youngest son feels very little sense of physical pain... and unlike my others, managed to break his arm, wrist, leg and ankle, by the time he was about 12, because.... why not? No pain, so little avoidance.
So, maybe there is a reason, although that is no doubt little comfort to individuals.
shouldnt St Peter be called Mr Peter - he aint very saintly
Why does God allow evil in the world - well if he didnt we wouldnot have free will and we would be good the whole time
but that is glibber than Mr Glib of Answerbank
and why doesnt Andie understand God Plan? because he is Andie and not God. These are standard answers...go read a catechism
Why does God allow evil in the world - well if he didnt we wouldnot have free will and we would be good the whole time
but that is glibber than Mr Glib of Answerbank
and why doesnt Andie understand God Plan? because he is Andie and not God. These are standard answers...go read a catechism
pixie - // Maybe, overall, we do 'need" tragedies to happen, accidents, unfairness, evilness and so on. As, if everyone was perfect, with perfect lives, we would have no need of anything like compassion, empathy, kindness, support, or many other human qualities. They would be unnecessary. //
If I read your post correctly, you are saying that the tragedies allow us to form the characteristics that make us human.
I can see why that is true - and I agree that dealing with tragedy does allow us the human characteristics that we all live with.
And that is why we are as we are.
But equally, if tragedy had never existed, we would, as you say, be 'perfect' - and had the human race gone that way, that is what we would be, and we would know nothing else, so it would be as normal to us as our own human condition.
To return to the continual bugbear I find with Christianity -
As an atheist, I have absolutly no issue reconciling myself to the fact that awful things happen to innocent people, simply because they do, there is no reason, or 'plan' it simply is the way it is.
Accordingly, I sleep soundly every night, untroubled by the thought of having to justify the tragedies in the world as some 'plan' that something has created for us, for reasons we are not permitted to know.
I am adult and intelligent enough to understand that some people believe in a higher power, and that there is a 'plan' laid out, but what I can't get my head around is that people seem to accept that this is simply the way it is - their 'loving' God gives them pain and misery for reasons of his own, and won't tell them why.
Theland seems to know what are, and what are not 'Acts Of God' so with his apparent insider knowledge, maybe he can enlighten me as to what this 'plan' is about, and if not, why is he content to live with a God who clearly doesn't actually love his creation very much at all.
If I read your post correctly, you are saying that the tragedies allow us to form the characteristics that make us human.
I can see why that is true - and I agree that dealing with tragedy does allow us the human characteristics that we all live with.
And that is why we are as we are.
But equally, if tragedy had never existed, we would, as you say, be 'perfect' - and had the human race gone that way, that is what we would be, and we would know nothing else, so it would be as normal to us as our own human condition.
To return to the continual bugbear I find with Christianity -
As an atheist, I have absolutly no issue reconciling myself to the fact that awful things happen to innocent people, simply because they do, there is no reason, or 'plan' it simply is the way it is.
Accordingly, I sleep soundly every night, untroubled by the thought of having to justify the tragedies in the world as some 'plan' that something has created for us, for reasons we are not permitted to know.
I am adult and intelligent enough to understand that some people believe in a higher power, and that there is a 'plan' laid out, but what I can't get my head around is that people seem to accept that this is simply the way it is - their 'loving' God gives them pain and misery for reasons of his own, and won't tell them why.
Theland seems to know what are, and what are not 'Acts Of God' so with his apparent insider knowledge, maybe he can enlighten me as to what this 'plan' is about, and if not, why is he content to live with a God who clearly doesn't actually love his creation very much at all.
eve - // I don't know why God allows such tragedies to happen - I only know that it doesn't shake my belief that God is in control. I would hesitate to put my religious opinion to the parents at this stage tho ... //
I can't really balme you.
They may look you in the eye and through their tears, they may ask you why God has taken their child in this way, and I am sure you would be the first to admit - you have no answer.
That's the difference between us - i could look them in the eye and say that bad things happen for no reason whatsoever, and that is absolutely beyond argument.
I wonder then today, which of us accepts the way the world is, and which of us is going to lie awake tonight trying, and failing, to find answers to their questions.
I can't really balme you.
They may look you in the eye and through their tears, they may ask you why God has taken their child in this way, and I am sure you would be the first to admit - you have no answer.
That's the difference between us - i could look them in the eye and say that bad things happen for no reason whatsoever, and that is absolutely beyond argument.
I wonder then today, which of us accepts the way the world is, and which of us is going to lie awake tonight trying, and failing, to find answers to their questions.
Andy - with respect - I dont understand why anyone needs to get their head around why some " people seem to accept that this is simply the way it is " ... because that is the joy of human free will. We can all choose how we believe. I (as a Christian) have no issue with you believing what you believe (as an atheist).
I think (for me) I have never felt the need to question too deeply - that probably make my own life simpler and I,m happy that way tbh
I think (for me) I have never felt the need to question too deeply - that probably make my own life simpler and I,m happy that way tbh
eve - // Andy - with respect - I dont understand why anyone needs to get their head around why some " people seem to accept that this is simply the way it is " ... because that is the joy of human free will. We can all choose how we believe. I (as a Christian) have no issue with you believing what you believe (as an atheist).
I think (for me) I have never felt the need to question too deeply - that probably make my own life simpler and I,m happy that way tbh //
You don;t need to question 'too deeply' - just question in the slightest flimsiest way you can, and watch your faith's explanations collapse like a house of cards.
Try this - God, there is an insect whose sole role in life, apart from reproducing itself, is to bore out the eyes of children in undeveloped countries - do you possibly have a reason for that?
Does that child not have the 'free will' to elect not to suffer blindness in this unfathomably cruel way?
I could go on all night, but that will do for a start.
I think (for me) I have never felt the need to question too deeply - that probably make my own life simpler and I,m happy that way tbh //
You don;t need to question 'too deeply' - just question in the slightest flimsiest way you can, and watch your faith's explanations collapse like a house of cards.
Try this - God, there is an insect whose sole role in life, apart from reproducing itself, is to bore out the eyes of children in undeveloped countries - do you possibly have a reason for that?
Does that child not have the 'free will' to elect not to suffer blindness in this unfathomably cruel way?
I could go on all night, but that will do for a start.
// Does that child not have the 'free will' to elect not to suffer blindness in this unfathomably cruel way?
I could go on all night, but that will do for a start. - - no no please dont
Does that child not have the 'free will' to elect not to suffer blindness in this unfathomably cruel way? (*) Does Andie H have free will not to come out unfathomably stupid non dequiturs?
I believe he does: he may think he does not
Note - strike out a few 'nots'
I could go on all night, but that will do for a start. - - no no please dont
Does that child not have the 'free will' to elect not to suffer blindness in this unfathomably cruel way? (*) Does Andie H have free will not to come out unfathomably stupid non dequiturs?
I believe he does: he may think he does not
Note - strike out a few 'nots'
