Justify This Rwanda Thing From A Non-Religious Angle

[fiveleaves]

Not interested in party politics, but want to hear want the non religious think. Is there any ethical argument or morality in secularism or humanism that could justify this proposal?
I know what the Archbishop of Canterbury thinks and for the record I agree with him. Dont bring God into it I want to hear the secular and humanist arguments

[ToraToraTora]

well why don't you start and tell us why you think it is not justified.

[Mozz71]

I have no issues with if as long as any countries being used as homes for the asylum seekers are truly safe and those in need are well looked after during their time there.

The safety and wellbeing of the refugees is the most important thing here.

[New Judge]

I think you need to ask yourself why should this country accept the influx of largely young male illegal immigrants who are being allowed to stay here at considerable expense to the taxpayer. Also often overlooked is the fact that by arriving announced and without authority they leap frog those applying to come here for genuine reasons and who have gone through the proper channels.

The government is selling this proposal on the basis that it will deter people from risking their lives crossing a busy waterway. It won't do that, but even if it did, that should not be their primary concern. Their main aim should be to stop the resources of this country being plundered by people with no leave to land here at the detriment of those already here.

So if you are interested in morality, consider whether it is moral for the government to spend £1.8bn a year on hotel accommodation for these people when the country is in such a parlous financial state and the population is currently being taxed at one of the highest rates in history. Also bear in mind that, unlike the people in Ukraine, those setting out in rubber boats from Northern France are in no immediate danger of peril. They simply don't like it where they've made their way to. As always, there's two lots of morals but unfortunately one seems to be trumping the other at every turn.

[Mozz71]

Because he asked the question Tora. You're supposed to answer rather than ask a different one. Hence the name of this site.

[fiveleaves]

Tora- As you asked, the Golden Law in Christianity, treat others as you would like to be treated yourself, and love your neighbour as yourself which Jesus lists as one of the two great commandments.
But for the purpose of this thread I want to hear non religious moral arguments

[New Judge]

//The safety and wellbeing of the refugees is the most important thing here//

As above, no it isn't. There are 67m people in this country who are suffering hardship and are being taxed to the hilt for various reasons - some justified, many not. Accommodating this influx is costing astronomical sums - money which could be spent alleviating the hardship of the people in this country whose interests the government was elected to protect. Those setting out from Northern France are not in any immediate danger. Any peril that they encounter in their crossing is entirely due to the fact that they have embarked on a journey in an unsuitable craft. They have no need to do it and it is not the responsibility of the UK government to secure their safety when they have taken such ridiculous risks.

[naomi24]

Since the people who are coming here illegally from a safe country aren’t fleeing war or persecution or danger, morality/ethics isn’t an issue. They are economic migrants and they have a choice. The Archbishop is talking out of the back of his mitre.

[ToraToraTora]

fireleaves, they need to be deterred, now I've no doubt the Rwanda scheme will get sabotaged by lawyers but we have to do something. They are in France, France is a safe country there is no earthly reason why they need to risk their lives crossing the channel. Regardless of christian values we are not a limitless resource.

[ToraToraTora]

fireleaves: "But for the purpose of this thread I want to hear non religious moral arguments " - ok so what are your "non religious moral" arguments against?

[Mozz71]

They are human beings Judge, not animals to be rounded up and caged.

[New Judge]

//As you asked, the Golden Law in Christianity, treat others as you would like to be treated yourself, and love your neighbour as yourself which Jesus lists as one of the two great commandments.//

You said not to bring religion into this. But since you have, I am not a Christian, I have no religious beliefs, I do not believe in the person Jesus whom you mention and so I am not bound by any “commandments” you believe he may have issued. But I do believe in treating others as I would like to be treated. I do not like to be treated as a mug by having to fund the lives of people who have no right to be here but have made their way here because they don’t like it where they are. Instead I would like to be treated with a bit of respect by the government the country elected and in particular I would like that government to respect the people of this country who are paying for this scandal. Every penny taken from them to deal with it is a penny they do not have to spend on the problems they face - and many face plenty.

[naomi24]

Let’s stop with the drama. No one is being caged. They come here by choice.

[New Judge]

//They are human beings Judge, not animals to be rounded up and caged.//

Then I recommend that they stay away from the UK and they won't run that risk.

[ToraToraTora]

perhaps we could start a 5C exchange scheme at least the migrants actually want to be here!

[fiveleaves]

Tora, I base my morals from my faith, so I dont have "non religious morals". If you dont have a religious faith you have to take the morals from another standpoint.
Many of the arguments raised so far seem to be political arguments rather than moral arguments

[davebro]

If we'd done what I proposed (seems years ago now!) and sunk the inflatables leaving the occupants to sink or swim then this "trade" would have stopped within a week, probably fewer lives would have been lost overall & we wouldn't need to be discussing it now!

[naomi24]

Where do morals come into this, fiveleaves? These people are not in danger. They’re economic migrants.

[ToraToraTora]

fireleaves: //Tora, I base my morals from my faith, so I dont have "non religious morals// - but you expect others to give their non religious morals so I assume this question is directed at atheists then? You don't have to be religious to have morals.

[Mozz71]

Why leave things to chance Davebro? It'll be far easier to put bullets in the back of their heads instead.

[fiveleaves]

Naomi- Do you agree with Davebro? If you don't then perhaps morals do come into it