Life, As Outlined By The Bishop Of Atheism

[Khandro]

"In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”
― Richard Dawkins.

[naomi24]

Stableford, why is he pessimistic? Surely realistic?

[Atheist]

Stableford; Do you have any scientific backgrund which makes you a reliable judge of Dawkins's scientific standing?
Do you believe that belief alone without any rational support is a good thing? If so, how do you deal with those whose beliefs differ radically from your own?

[Atheist]

Humans have always been inclined to believe what is reassuring. Thus, without any evidence, the christian god is presented by some as a merciful loving father. Those who feel reassured by seeing enemies severely punished like to believe in a god of retribution.

[ynnafymmi]

I was okay up to-"In....after that ,no,a lot of keich.

[fiveleaves]

I spent the morning walking in the countryside. Every plant, bird, butterfly I saw screams at me it was created. What is more reasonable to believe: there is an an illusion of design or there was an actual design>
We are not accidents, creatures of chance. The universe is neither meaningless or indifferent. We have a few years on earth to get to know our creator. I would suggest that people take that opportunity

[Atheist]

fiveleaves; I think that most of the screaming that goes on between living beings is based on claiming territory or trying to intimidate others; it's not really like All Things Bright and Beautiful.
Anyway, if it makes you happy then who am I to object as long as you do not threaten me if I happen to disagree with you: that sort of thing happens a lot between religious followers.

[fiveleaves]

If the Universe is indifferent why should people not be indifferent too?
If some people get hurt, and other people get lucky why should i care?
What reason is there to be moral if we are living in an indifferent and Godless universe?

[Old_Geezer]

Why do folk expect reasons ? What is, is.

[Atheist]

fiveleaves. What you say is rather insulting. I don't believe that there is a god who decides what is right and wrong and will punish me if I disobey him. I know in myself what is right and wrong, and it is based on the pre-religion and pre-historic instinct which tells each of us to treat others as we wish to be treated ourselves.
Are you worried that if it were to be proved that god did not exist then you would suddenly become bad? I'm sure you wouldn't.

[Khandro]

Atheist's continual search for 'facts' reminds one of how Dickens memorably opens his novel “Hard Times” with the vision of a pedagogy of “facts” by teacher Thomas Gradgrind, at the expense of all else:

“NOW, what I want is, Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life. Plant nothing else, and root out everything else. You can only form the minds of reasoning animals upon Facts: nothing else will ever be of any service to them. This is the principle on which I bring up my own children, and this is the principle on which I bring up these children. Stick to Facts, sir!”

You see Atheist, if humanity had relied solely on 'facts' without imagination, it wouldn't have advanced very far. At one time an unquestionable 'fact' was that the Earth was flat - otherwise any other shape & we'd all fall off -. Similarly was the 'fact' that the sun revolved around the Earth - this was 'obvious & uncontestable' because it could be observed setting in the west & rising again in the east-. What else could it be?

It was only by the grace of human imagination & intuition that these 'facts' were disproven & advances in scientific understanding were able to be made.

Plod on with your facts my friend.

[andy-hughes]

I can hear the familiar sound of wheels endlessly spinning ..
...

[naomi24]

That’s the second time you’ve used Gradgrind recently, khandro, and I’m still at a loss to know what you actually believe.

[DTCwordfan]

Bring on Diogenes of Sinope and the School of Cynicism.....

[Atheist]

Khandro; We didn't improve our understanding of the world and the solar system and the universe by sheer imagination, but by careful observation of what there was to see, and by improving our observational techniques. Imagination without observation doesn't really get us anywhere.

[Khandro]

Obviously !

[Atheist]

Khandro; you say "Plod on with your facts, my friend."
I could riposte, "Plod on with your imagination, my friend," but I don't think that would be fair, nor would it get this discussion anywhere. You seem not to want to consider anyone else's views (apart from the 'authorities' you have chosen to believe, probably because they support your outlook.)
If you have no problem with evolution by natural selection, how far back do you see it going, i.e. when did a creator do his creating? Do you accept that creation of life could have occurred prior to hominids?

[Khandro]

Atheist; We are going on the coming Wednesday to spend a couple of days or so on the Mosel at Berkastel-Kues, birthplace of the great german thinker, Nicolaus;

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/cusanus/

There's also a much longer entry for him in Wikipedia.

He had some interesting things to say about man's relationship with the creator, scroll down to, * 2. Nicholas' Thought* for example.

[fiveleaves]

Even a so called simple cell is anything but simple. Nature is irreducibly complex at any level you wish to study it. I find it insulting to suggest that this level of complexity is just the result of chance or natural selection. Any reasonable reasonable person looking at a flower, tree, dog would say it looks like it was designed to be the way it is.
A cold, indifferent universe leads people to be nihilistic or just despairing. We were created for a purpose and that is to love God and have fellowship with Him

[Radagast]

"chance or natural selection"

The two are not the same.

[david small]

The universe smiles upon us with wry amusement.