Theland's unanswered questions

[wizard69]

Theland, when are you going to answer this http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Society-and-Cul ture/Religion-and-Spirituality/Question361774- 4.html
or were you hoping that we would forget?

[Theland]

The, "plain logic" I am confronted with on AB, tells me that the universe, "just happened" for no apparent reason. Further on down the time line, the arguements develop into degree level micro biology, and prehistoric geology. But, everyone seems quite happy believing that the universe itself is the ultimate "free lunch." That, to me, is totally illogical, and is the starting point for everything else. I don't need to have a brain the size of Canada to realise that there's something fishy about this widely held view.
And, consider, what is the nature of, "nothing", the presumed state from which everything emerged?
Please apply you logic to this, and explain.

[chakka35]

Theland, no-one knows how the universe came about. I don't. Science doesn't. You don't.
You are lucky in that you don't have to think about it. You just say "God did it." and that's it for you.
It may be millennia before we know or we may never know. But running away to gods to explain it is what primitive man used to do. We are supposed to have moved on from there.

[Lighter]

<<no-one knows how the universe came about. I don't. Science doesn't>>

But yet children are indoctrinated in school textbooks with 'Billions of years ago.........'
They are not told 'we don't know', they are taught it as a fact.

[Theland]

I agree with you Lighter.

[chakka35]

You're getting confused, Lighter. Science has very good ways of discovering when the universe came about but does not know how. It is perfectly reasonable to tell children what we know so far, while admitting that there are lots of things we don't know.
Religious folk are not content with this but would tell children (as, alas, they often do) that they know how - it was God (or whatever other god that culture believes in). Then what we do know - the age - they mislead children about, telling them that the earth is only a few thousand years old and nonsense like that. I don't think religion has anything to tell us about educating children

[Lighter]

<<It is perfectly reasonable to tell children what we know so far, while admitting that there are lots of things we don't know>>

But Chakka, they don't. Young children read, say for example a book about birds, and it says "Birds evolved over millions of years from lizards", or "wings evolved over millions of years".
These are stated to children as facts, and they are never told that they are not known for sure.
And isn't there enough wonderful known facts to tell kids about the different kinds of animals without mentioning evolution? Can that not wait to later in life when the child can reason if the evidence bears up or not?

Personally I don't think either creation or evolution should be taught in science classes. For two reasons.
One, they are both religious beliefs. And two, if we take Creation, or the 'big bang' or when those first chemicals for some unprobable reason became life, they are one off, un-repeatable events.
Neither of them fall into science as they can not be observed, measured, tested, repeated, formulated etc.

I'm all for true proper science, and for proper science education, not this dead-end of evolution.

You say there are good ways for discovering when the universe came about. What would these be? Would I not be right in saying they are based on presumptions?

I think there are many evidences that are in favour of a young earth. The problem is since mainstream science has been hijacked by evolutionary thinking these don't get the chance of public notice.

[chakka35]

In a post on AB, Lighter, you know full well that I cannot give you all the facts and arguments that indicate the age of the earth and the universe. You'll have to read them up for yourself. You, on the other hand, would not take up any space at all in giving the 'facts' and 'arguments' for a young earth because there are none.
Evolution is now an established science which started with a brilliant theory which is now supported by mountains of evidence from all manner of disciplines. What's more, not one grain of evidence has been found to question it, nor has any other explanation for complex life come forward to challenge it. You can close your eyes and ears to it if you like, but it won't go away.