Jesus said

[Lonnie]

Jesus said a lot of things, but the one i'm interested in, is.,

'Nobody come to the Father, except through me'.

I read that to mean, you have to accept Jesus to be allowed into heaven, that may be wrong, but if its right, what happens to all the good people in the world, of a different or no religion, since humans were either created, or as I believe, evolved?.

[luna-tic]

Hello Lon,
I thought Jesus was supposed to be in heaven or with his old man anyway so whether you believe the story or not and religion is your thing or not, if those of us that have been good all our lives(highly unlikely but you never know) are wishing a decent ascent then Jesus shouldn't have anything to do with it or if your evolution theory is correct then who knows what happens? Back to the earth maybe.
Sorry,haven't helped much.

[Clanad]

There's probably no question more asked Lonnie, because it seems, well, so unfair in our judgement doesn't it? But that's precisely what it says and it's clear from other references that's what the intent is. Your reference is John 14:6, by the way.
As to your specific quesiton about the fate of others. That's covered as well in many places, but ne the most important is Paul, in Romans 1:18-32 who states that the evidence for God as displayed in nature as well as that the recognition of God placed in every human heart is so great as to be unavoidable. Further, Paul also says in his letter to the Romans, Chapter 2:12-16...

"(12)All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. (13)For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (14)(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, (15)since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) (16)This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares." I think the key verse here is (15) in that the Law is written on their hearts...
Is it not true that, generally, every culture in the world has the same overarching precepts of what's lawful and what is not? Murder, rape, theft, false testimony and in a lot of cases blasphemy as well as many others are all shared values. You would probably relegate this to evolution, but 'm not so sure.

Contd.

[Clanad]

Contd.

So, if the Law is written on each person's heart and their consience is pricked when they break that law, this is the value to which God will hold them if they have not heard of the saving sacrifice of Yeshua.

But the important point is, have you heard of Yeshua? I would guess that a huge majority of the people in the world have (which is the basic reason for evangelisim being paramount in the Christian's life). It's the person who has heard and still declines the freely given offer of salvation that is without excuse.

Is it not true, Lonnie that even your People of the Book declare Elohim to be absolutely just and merciful? It's on the basis of Who and What He is that the judgement will be perfectly clear and unarguable.
Yeshua said "... I have come that you may have life and that more abundantly..." so, it's not just the prospect of heaven that is on the believer's heart, it's the daily walk with Him...

As an aside, I fully realize the reaction this will produce with the community of this thread... but it's out of honor to who asked this question and my perception that your asking is sincere as always. The Gospel itself was given by God first for the Jews (Romans 1:16). And in Romans 9:1-3 Paul mourns the fate of those Jews who have rejected Jesus as their Messiah. So, even with the Jews, rejection of Yeshua carries with it a terrible consequence, but one of their own choosing.

Contd

[Clanad]

Fini

I happen to believe that Elohim Adonai's justice and mercy are so great that His unbreakable covenant with Abraham is and will still be inforce. I think it's possible that on the Day of Judgement (The Great White Throne Judgement) that all Jews who have rejected Ha Mashiach will have the opportunity to be witnessed to by Yeshua himself. As strange as it seems, even then there will be those that say "NO". In which case they, along with Gentiles who have the same answer will be precisley where they have chosen to be in their relation with God.
So, Lonnie do you know about Yeshua Ha Mashiac?

[naomi24]

Despite all the words written and spoken, nobody knows what Jesus said. Christians may believe they have the answers, but in reality all they have is faith - and faith isn't necessarily truth.

[ludwig]

I asked the same thing a few weeks ago Lonnie. The general consensus seemed to be that it didn't matter how good you were, if you don't believe in Jesus you ain't going to heaven.

[Lonnie]

I asked this question mainly because my younger brother, who converted to an offshoot of the Church of England, told me that no-one can go to Heaven, unless they accept Jesus.

Now, to my way of thinking, whether you believe or not, and assuming that there really is a God/Son/Holy Ghost and Heaven, Heaven/Paradise should be open to all who fill the criteria, whatever in the end, that is.

luna-tic,
thanks for answering, good of you.

naomi,
I quite agree with your answer.

ludwig,
My apologies, I missed your post, if i'd seen it, I would have contributed.

Clanad,
I always look forward to reading your answers, always in depth, and very informative,
Yeshua Hamashiach, Jesus the Messiah, yes, I know about him, but don't believe in him, also, as per the Torah, as far as I am concerned, God was a God of war, and not merciful at all, that is a New Testament concept.
My View.

[naomi24]

Lonnie, your view tends to concur with the facts, as the bible relates them.

[Clanad]

Fair enough, Lonnie, thanks for the courtesy of reading the post(s) and Haya Naim Me'od... Shalom...

[naomi24]

Lonnie, just an afterthought. I can't quite remember the details, but there was a discussion on this very subject fairly recently which concluded with something like by Christian criteria Gandhi would be denied entry into heaven, but George Bush would be welcomed. I rest my case.

[brionon]

That made I larf.

[jackthehat]

Hi, Naomi, you are thinking of a quote from my "Sermon from the Couch" where I stated that whilst Ghandi would be kicking his heels, Martin McGuinness would be fast-tracked passed him.

But George Bush will serve equally well as an example of a muderous bar-steward, although I feel he has probably been a little more remote from the 'wet-work' than McGuinness.

[naomi24]

Aha!! Jack! Thank you. I knew someone had said something like that, but I couldn't remember who it was. I think it was me who added George Bush to the end of that particular thread.

[Octavius]

When Gandhi was asked whether he was a Hindu, he replied:

"Yes I am. I am also a Christian, a Muslim, a Buddhist and a Jew."

So I imagine all the heavens have got him on their VIP lists.

There is a universality at work. God has sent us teachers throughout time, giving us his laws. His laws are not arbitrary rules, but guidance that lead us in the path towards Him, towards His Perfection and ultimately towards His embrace (heaven).

They are like candles that allow us to find our way in the darkness of night. Whichever teacher you follow, the lights are available and ready to guide you to where you want to go.

[naomi24]

Sounds about right. However, for the purposes of this discussion, since Gandhi wasn't a fully fledged Christian, we can only assume that by the criteria of the Christian church he would not have been accepted into heaven.

[Theland]

Neither would Mother Theresa.

[Octavius]

We're all doomed.

[jackthehat]

.................how did Private Fraser get in here ? :o)

[naomi24]

Mother Theresa?

[WaldoMcFroog]

I do hope this isn't any anti-Catholic bigotry, Theland...

By what definition was Mother Theresa not a Christian?