Anyone know of war where God wasn't on board?

[WaldoMcFroog]

Has there ever been a war where God hasn't been on side?

I don't mean where God just wasn't mentioned, I mean where a side actively acknowledged God wasn't on their side because he was cheering for the other team?

If so, did they win or lose?

[paulos66]

Octavius, are you sure? Virtually everyboby else did!

[B00]

We've had quite a few wars on B&S, none I believe were about God- do they count????

[Octavius]

Wars B00? I thought they were mere tantrums! Not such a War of the Roses, more a war of daffodils or pansies?

In the War of Roses both sides claimed that legitimacy was on their side. Not God. Not to mention all the Cantons and feudal wars where, imperialism, socialism, communism was on their side.

As paulo66 has pointed out, where god belief isn't a strong social dynamic, like in North Korea (his example), the motivator becomes the "cult worship of the leader."

[B00]

i like that Octavius...War of the Pansies, it has a ring to it!

[WaldoMcFroog]

Sorry if I haven't been clear: I'm not interested in wars which don't mention God at all, or where God was supposedly on both sides, but a war where one side acknowledged that God favoured the opposition.

[ludwig]

It's not really the most inspirational rallying cry if you think about it...'Come on men, let's go out there and face the enemy even though we know the omnipotent and almighty god is on their side'.
That's probably why people have traditionally avoided saying it - it's not very good for the recruitment figures, and also a bit of a downer for moral generally.

[ludwig]

morale

[Octavius]

Maxientius at The Battle of the Milvian Bridge.
Its getting boring now.

[WaldoMcFroog]

Blimey - are you being coerced into reading the thread or something..?

Do you have a link to a source? A lazy Wikipedia lookup merely suggests Constantine aligned himself with Christianity - that Christ appeared to him in a vision to say he should fight under his banner in order to win, but accordind to that source, it's not possible to conclude Maxientius acknowledged he wasn't fighting with God on his side.

[Octavius]

Yes it is, he told me in a vision.

[paulos66]

If we can't think of a single war where they didn't believe god to be on side does that mean we've proved there'd be no wars without religion

[China Doll]

No. It means we proved that humans are arrogant enough to believe that if there is a God that it has the same sense of rights and wrongs as we do.

Either that or he's a sadist.

[Octavius]

So what you are saying is that a war erupts, and people use religion to rally up the troops? Or that the essence of religion starts the war in the first place, and the people just go along with it?

If an atheist was conscripted into the army for a war, would they believe that God was on the other side? If they believe that God is on neither side because he/she /it /they don't exist, is it still a war caused by religion?

[paulos66]

Aethiests would not believe god was on either side - do you really need telling?
Whether the conscript believed in the tooth fairy would have no relevance to the cause of the war - aethiests believe religion exists

[WaldoMcFroog]

Atheists don't believe God exists, therefore it is axiomatic that we don't believe he's on anyone's side or that God can start wars himself.

The point is that if he is invoked at all, God is always 'on side'. He never disapproves or fails to support the military aims and objectives of a given side, even if they face an opponent who says the same thing. Clearly the AB hasn't produced a definitive survey that God has never been acknowledged by a side to favour the opponents, but I remain confident there won't be any answers meeting the requirement soon.

If there are, I shall sing a sacriligious song naked in the middle of the News category.

[Octavius]

Would YOU say then that in the Iraq war, God is not on our side, since he does not exist? But accept that they (the collective) believe that God is on their side?

[paulos66]

I completely accept that some people are gullible enough to believe in fairies, and a belief in them does not mean they exist.
In Iraq War god isn't on either side, no matter what anyone from any side thinks
I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean by 'our' side

[WaldoMcFroog]

Octavius, Bush and Blair have certainly both made comments to the effect that God is on our side, but I don't know whether that's a view held by most of the troops. If it is, then yes, I would accept that they believed it, even if I didn't.

[mibn2cweus]

Waldo, I'm still not grasping the exact nature of your question. Are we talking about one side believing that their own god is fighting with, on behalf and/or contributing to the cause of their enemies? If this is right are we talking about a significant majority holding this belief?

"Blimey! look at that will yah! Isn't that Jesus over yonder strapin' on a Gihad belt? Suppose he's lookin' tuh get laid or maybe he just got bored hangin round with the old fart waitin' for him to get on with the rapture?"

Something along those lines???


"Wait up! That ain't Him!"