The Pursuit Of Happiness

[Theland]

Radio 4 programme, "Something Understood," at 06:00 Sunday, raised an interesting question.
If evolution is true, then why are we programmed to pursue happiness, but end up pursuing our desires, which don't necessarily result in happiness? On the contrary, quite often, trying to satisfy our desires, with the promise of happiness, results in just the opposite, not only for ourselves, but for others also.
If we were programmed to desire the happiness of others, above our own, then we would have a better world.
Re-programming the human heart is one of the main tenets of Christianity, to subdue our own desires and put others first.
Other religions claim this as well, and people of no religion can share in this view obviously.
But, why is this re-programming necessary? Why aren't we made like this from our evolutionary history, presuming it to be true?

[raysparx1]

I will pop over now and again, thank you Keyplus, the only way forward is with the truth,

[naomi24]

Keyplus, yes science does make the occasional U-turn - because, unlike religion, it seeks the truth.

[WaldoMcFroog]

To add to which, yes, science does change its mind about things because science has to accomodate the best fit for the evidence, not insist that it is correct in spite of the evidence.

[keyplus90]

Science keeps on changing the mind because science is not there yet. Science approved very recently what Quran told 1400 years ago and will keep on approving as scientists will learn more. Scientist dicovered now about few years ago how embryo develops, Scientists found out only about couple of hundred years ago that Earth is not flat, They found recently that moon light is not its own light but the reflection. Quran told this 1400 years ago. Only few years ago they discovered the 10th planet (used to be nine before) Quran said 1400 years ago the exact number according to that there are few more to be found. But as Francis Bacon the famous philosopher rightly said that a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God. You know now they are looking for life on other planets, let me tel you they would find some sort of life. When, no one knows that. How do I know that there is life apart from Earth, because Quran says so. Having said that Quran is not the book of SCIENCE. It is a book of SIGNS. It gives you signs and indications about every thing in your life. And science is one of those. For few people, these are very clear signs and for few, well their minds are shut. Good night

[WaldoMcFroog]

The embryology stuff (Surah 22, yes?) is broadly right, but so what - other secular accounts starting earlier had similar levels of knowledge. Cutting dead people up allows you to do that. Nothing it says is any sort of sign of anything supernatural, merely the possession of a few knives and the ability to describe.

18:86, 90 supports a flat earth: "When he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring.... Till when he reached the rising-place of the sun." & "Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom."

71:16 says: "And hath made the moon a light", which suggests it is it's own source rather than a reflector and therefore goes against what you're claiming.

12:4 says: "When Joseph said unto his father: O my father! Lo! I saw in a dream eleven planets and the sun and the moon, I saw them prostrating themselves unto me."

Far from us getting closer to 11 planets, we've just declassified Pluto.

Not quite the hotbed of science you would have it...

[123everton]

It's as easy, common and popular to perjure God's word and will as it is to perjure Darwin's theories towards a selfish political end Darwin's theories formed the basis of Nazism, Apartheid and segregation.
The truth is were you find it and how you express it is were the problems arise.

[Ice.Maiden]

I don't think anyone's "programmed" to pursue happiness. You either are, or you aren't, depending on what one views as bringing happiness in the first place. These days, wealth, material possessions and aesthetic bodies seem to bring "happiness" to many people, which of course shouldn't be the issue in the first place, but that's another debate. A cat will purr with happiness if you tickle it. We're all animals - programmed by genetic need to respond to stimuli, and this brings happiness in a form, as does falling in love, in humans. happiness is however one views it.

[naomi24]

123, I can't agree that 'the truth is where you find it'. Truth is not man's perception of, or belief in, that which cannot be proven. Truth is reality.

[WaldoMcFroog]

The difference is that Darwin's theory was precisely just descriptive. It did not claim to be good, bad or anywhere in between. It did not propose that behaviours should be modified as a result of it or were punishable as a result of it.

Now compare any religious text...

[123everton]

If you believe in God the the truth is you believe he (it) exists, the proof is a personal thing based on your experiences and how you interpret them. If you see God working in the world, then you see him, if you see evolution, mathematics and probability then you don't. Personal experience is proof veracity for personal belief. If you did'nt believe in ghosts or UFOs and then you saw one, you'd very quickly change your tune.
To have writings scientific, religious or otherwise construed to suit a political end you begin to find problems.
Darwin's theories were used as a "scientific" backdrop to give credence to a "modern" atheist political ideology to create their heaven on Earth.
We all have a God sized hole some choose to fill it with politics, Stephen Weinburg (assuming he's of Jewish ancestry) should know that better than most.

[naomi24]

123, I believe in ghosts, and I believe that earth has been visited in the past by people from other planets, but I can't say that either are true, since I have no proof. As I said, truth is not man's perception of, or belief, in something, despite his personal experiences. Truth is fact, and fact requires proof.

[keyplus90]

Waldo- First of all I think you need to learn Arabic. If you would rely on translation then at-least ask the arabs what it means. Ch10:71 "It is Allah who has created the Sun as a shining glory and the Moon having a reflection of light" The similar message is repeated in Surah Nuh, Ch. No. 71, Verse No. 15 to 16. The Arabic word for Sun is �Shams�. It's always described either as �Siraj� meaning a torch, or �Wahaj� meaning a blazing lamp, or �Diya� � �meaning a shining glory�. The Moon - the Arabic word is �Qamar�. It's always described as �Munir�, meaning borrowed light or �Noor�, which is a reflection of light. Nowhere is the moon light described as �Siraj� or �Wahaj� or �Diya� - always as �Munir� or �Noor� - that's borrowed light or a reflection of light.

[keyplus90]

Waldo - here is another one.The Qur�an mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse:
"And we have made the earth egg shaped".
[Al-Qur�an 79:30]
The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth. What you are talking about that Quran tells about the CRUST of the Earth, that Allah made it like a "carpet" so it would be easier for human to travel on it. Otherwise we all know how hot the centre of the Earth is. But still a carpet can be wrapped aroud an egg as well. does not have to be flat surface to wrap carpet.

[WaldoMcFroog]

At best you've proved is that the Koran is contradictory.

I'm certainly not about to learn Arabic just so I can read a document that I already know is a load of rubbish. Given that the Koran borrows extensively from the OT, and I know that the OT is utter crud, why would I bother?

[keyplus90]

Waldo- at the end I would say that neither your knowledge is as much as of Dr William Campbell nor mine is more than Dr Zakir Naik. Otherwise we would not be Waldoos and Keyplus. We people are afraid to tell our real names. If you have followed these debates then you must be aware that Dr William Campbell with all his knowledge could not prove even a sigle Verse in Quraan whic Science says is wrong. Having said that I can even send you the copy of that debate as a free gift if you want to know the reality. Otherwise carry on as you are.

[keyplus90]

I can even prove you wrong on that as well. That Quran was not copied from O/T. Yes few things might be similar as Original Bible (which does not exist now only parts of it) was by the same God (One and only) so of course it would have few things same. But You need to study more with open heart. Otherwise I can give you a long list of full of knwledge (Christian Priest) who reverted to Islam. Obviously they too had more knowledge than you have. Otherwsie you give me a single name of any well known Muslim Scholar who deserted Islam for any other religion.http://www.watchislam.com/videos/video.php?vid =3

[keyplus90]

For the kind attention of Waldo.http://www.christianityboard.com/dr-william-ca mpbell-vs-dr-zakir-naik-t2704.html?s=6854eeea9 9117db562f502c792de741e&

[chakka35]

keyplus, you must be a pupil of Theland, judging by your method of answering a question by ignoring it and then giving a sermon.

If you ever get around to having a sensible discussion -about evoution or anything else - please let me know. In the meantime I'll leave you to your religious musings.

[123everton]

I've felt God around me (so have you in churches you've visited) I've seen things minor little things that to some seem inconsequential but for me just seemed odd. For example a boy nearly ran out in front of the bus on Rathbone Road he stopped at the last second, the ball he was running after rolled and burst under the front wheel without going into too much detail the path it took was so odd to me and to burst a ball on the front wheel is very unusual (the back one's quite easy) I could introduce you to an old colleague who knocked a 10 year old boy over in the bus, with people on it all in all about 12 tonnes of a Leyland Titan plus it's load was held back as it skidded to a halt (about 10 foot) by a boy of about 6 maybe 7 stone, the fire brigade came and lifted the vehicle off him. The only injuries he had was to have cuts on one of the cheeks of his ar5se. Miracle? Or mathematics and probability? The truth is borne from your perception of the events.
In matters of philosophy noone can prove conclusively one way or another, it's not like a court of law, personal experience comes into it. I'm certain I've encountered a ghost also, but that's another story.