ChatterBank1 min ago
Who/what made the laws?
42 Answers
If the universe is governed by laws (proven by science), how come we have a problem with believing in a higher authority/intelligence that set those laws into place?
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Theland, I will try. . .
From an early age I made a commitment to believe in only what I knew from experience or through research to be true. If, as I had been told, Hell was the inevitable consequence of relying on what reason demonstrated to be true, I chose to accept the punishment that was my 'just' due rather than pass responsibility for my own life and actions onto another albeit willing victim.
Looking back with some astonishment that at that early age I made the only honourable choice, I cannot say that choice was made without a great deal of apprehension. For a long time fear and self-doubt were the motivation for my need to determine once and for all whether or not this nightmarish view of an unjust world might define the actual nature of reality.
My unrelenting search for the truth has lead me to an understanding that we are each of us inescapably responsible for our own lives and actions from the time we are provided with the essential tools to do so however rusty bent and broken those tools may be. There are no guaranties in life but if we allow ourselves to drown in a self-created ocean of fear, pain and self-doubt we impose upon ourselves the certainty of an untimely and premature demise without the benefit of a chance to succeed or of experiencing the honour of having put up a fight.
From an early age I made a commitment to believe in only what I knew from experience or through research to be true. If, as I had been told, Hell was the inevitable consequence of relying on what reason demonstrated to be true, I chose to accept the punishment that was my 'just' due rather than pass responsibility for my own life and actions onto another albeit willing victim.
Looking back with some astonishment that at that early age I made the only honourable choice, I cannot say that choice was made without a great deal of apprehension. For a long time fear and self-doubt were the motivation for my need to determine once and for all whether or not this nightmarish view of an unjust world might define the actual nature of reality.
My unrelenting search for the truth has lead me to an understanding that we are each of us inescapably responsible for our own lives and actions from the time we are provided with the essential tools to do so however rusty bent and broken those tools may be. There are no guaranties in life but if we allow ourselves to drown in a self-created ocean of fear, pain and self-doubt we impose upon ourselves the certainty of an untimely and premature demise without the benefit of a chance to succeed or of experiencing the honour of having put up a fight.
I do not have all the answers but I have learned to accept the reality that I never will. I attribute what success I have been able to achieve to what knowledge I have been able to acquire and the only reward I seek is the understanding my efforts to find and know the truth has provided me with, among those truths that we do live in a just reality, even if we still experience the injustice of those who have not sought and arrived at this same truth. The joy of living and the value of reason are inter-dependent gifts that ultimately must be earned by learning to integrate the two.
The degree and quality of happiness one acquires from achieving victory over the lies dispensed in ones childhood and throughout ones life can be directly communicated only to one who has themselves achieved in some small measure such a victory. To this I can only hope you can relate.
The degree and quality of happiness one acquires from achieving victory over the lies dispensed in ones childhood and throughout ones life can be directly communicated only to one who has themselves achieved in some small measure such a victory. To this I can only hope you can relate.
Mibs - Please bear with me if I seem to be labouring a point.
Several phrases in your statement are quite striking.
You talk about the honour of putting up a fight. I take it that you mean the fight to achieve ones full potential as a human being. But this is where we part company, for I believe that I too can reach my full potential as a human being, not simply by searching and researching for knowledge, but in allowing myself to be also swept along on the tides of life, and experiencing whatever comes my way, so that no two of us will ever lay claim to a totally common knowledge, as much knowledge is by its very nature subjective.
(cont)
Several phrases in your statement are quite striking.
You talk about the honour of putting up a fight. I take it that you mean the fight to achieve ones full potential as a human being. But this is where we part company, for I believe that I too can reach my full potential as a human being, not simply by searching and researching for knowledge, but in allowing myself to be also swept along on the tides of life, and experiencing whatever comes my way, so that no two of us will ever lay claim to a totally common knowledge, as much knowledge is by its very nature subjective.
(cont)
(cont)
My contention is that knowledge and its acquisition is both objective and subjective, and we must at some point humble ourselves and put our trust in others if we are to benefit from their experiences, experiences that we may never be able to share, but no less real for all that.
This question of humility flies in the face of your obvious pride in your quest for knowledge, a quest that appears to have been at times quite laborious, but rewarding nonetheless.
Humility is a key to unlocking certain types of knowledge, and conversely, pride is a barrier to such knowledge.
My relationship with the God in whom I believe is based on a master and servant relationship, and I must, if I am to obtain knowledge of my God, and attain the status of His adapted son as promised, cast out pride as best I can, and humble myself before a far greater being than I, by whose grace I can grow in knowledge and potential.
You raised so many points, and I thank you for that, even though I have not responded to them all.
My contention is that knowledge and its acquisition is both objective and subjective, and we must at some point humble ourselves and put our trust in others if we are to benefit from their experiences, experiences that we may never be able to share, but no less real for all that.
This question of humility flies in the face of your obvious pride in your quest for knowledge, a quest that appears to have been at times quite laborious, but rewarding nonetheless.
Humility is a key to unlocking certain types of knowledge, and conversely, pride is a barrier to such knowledge.
My relationship with the God in whom I believe is based on a master and servant relationship, and I must, if I am to obtain knowledge of my God, and attain the status of His adapted son as promised, cast out pride as best I can, and humble myself before a far greater being than I, by whose grace I can grow in knowledge and potential.
You raised so many points, and I thank you for that, even though I have not responded to them all.
(cont)
My contention is that knowledge and its acquisition is both objective and subjective, and we must at some point humble ourselves and put our trust in others if we are to benefit from their experiences, experiences that we may never be able to share, but no less real for all that.
This question of humility flies in the face of your obvious pride in your quest for knowledge, a quest that appears to have been at times quite laborious, but rewarding nonetheless.
Humility is a key to unlocking certain types of knowledge, and conversely, pride is a barrier to such knowledge.
My relationship with the God in whom I believe is based on a master and servant relationship, and I must, if I am to obtain knowledge of my God, and attain the status of His adapted son as promised, cast out pride as best I can, and humble myself before a far greater being than I, by whose grace I can grow in knowledge and potential.
You raised so many points, and I thank you for that, even though I have not responded to them all.
My contention is that knowledge and its acquisition is both objective and subjective, and we must at some point humble ourselves and put our trust in others if we are to benefit from their experiences, experiences that we may never be able to share, but no less real for all that.
This question of humility flies in the face of your obvious pride in your quest for knowledge, a quest that appears to have been at times quite laborious, but rewarding nonetheless.
Humility is a key to unlocking certain types of knowledge, and conversely, pride is a barrier to such knowledge.
My relationship with the God in whom I believe is based on a master and servant relationship, and I must, if I am to obtain knowledge of my God, and attain the status of His adapted son as promised, cast out pride as best I can, and humble myself before a far greater being than I, by whose grace I can grow in knowledge and potential.
You raised so many points, and I thank you for that, even though I have not responded to them all.
(cont)
My contention is that knowledge and its acquisition is both objective and subjective, and we must at some point humble ourselves and put our trust in others if we are to benefit from their experiences, experiences that we may never be able to share, but no less real for all that.
This question of humility flies in the face of your obvious pride in your quest for knowledge, a quest that appears to have been at times quite laborious, but rewarding nonetheless.
Humility is a key to unlocking certain types of knowledge, and conversely, pride is a barrier to such knowledge.
My relationship with the God in whom I believe is based on a master and servant relationship, and I must, if I am to obtain knowledge of my God, and attain the status of His adapted son as promised, cast out pride as best I can, and humble myself before a far greater being than I, by whose grace I can grow in knowledge and potential.
You raised so many points, and I thank you for that, even though I have not responded to them all.
My contention is that knowledge and its acquisition is both objective and subjective, and we must at some point humble ourselves and put our trust in others if we are to benefit from their experiences, experiences that we may never be able to share, but no less real for all that.
This question of humility flies in the face of your obvious pride in your quest for knowledge, a quest that appears to have been at times quite laborious, but rewarding nonetheless.
Humility is a key to unlocking certain types of knowledge, and conversely, pride is a barrier to such knowledge.
My relationship with the God in whom I believe is based on a master and servant relationship, and I must, if I am to obtain knowledge of my God, and attain the status of His adapted son as promised, cast out pride as best I can, and humble myself before a far greater being than I, by whose grace I can grow in knowledge and potential.
You raised so many points, and I thank you for that, even though I have not responded to them all.
(cont)
My contention is that knowledge and its acquisition is both objective and subjective, and we must at some point humble ourselves and put our trust in others if we are to benefit from their experiences, experiences that we may never be able to share, but no less real for all that.
This question of humility flies in the face of your obvious pride in your quest for knowledge, a quest that appears to have been at times quite laborious, but rewarding nonetheless.
Humility is a key to unlocking certain types of knowledge, and conversely, pride is a barrier to such knowledge.
My relationship with the God in whom I believe is based on a master and servant relationship, and I must, if I am to obtain knowledge of my God, and attain the status of His adapted son as promised, cast out pride as best I can, and humble myself before a far greater being than I, by whose grace I can grow in knowledge and potential.
You raised so many points, and I thank you for that, even though I have not responded to them all.
My contention is that knowledge and its acquisition is both objective and subjective, and we must at some point humble ourselves and put our trust in others if we are to benefit from their experiences, experiences that we may never be able to share, but no less real for all that.
This question of humility flies in the face of your obvious pride in your quest for knowledge, a quest that appears to have been at times quite laborious, but rewarding nonetheless.
Humility is a key to unlocking certain types of knowledge, and conversely, pride is a barrier to such knowledge.
My relationship with the God in whom I believe is based on a master and servant relationship, and I must, if I am to obtain knowledge of my God, and attain the status of His adapted son as promised, cast out pride as best I can, and humble myself before a far greater being than I, by whose grace I can grow in knowledge and potential.
You raised so many points, and I thank you for that, even though I have not responded to them all.
(cont)
My contention is that knowledge and its acquisition is both objective and subjective, and we must at some point humble ourselves and put our trust in others if we are to benefit from their experiences, experiences that we may never be able to share, but no less real for all that.
This question of humility flies in the face of your obvious pride in your quest for knowledge, a quest that appears to have been at times quite laborious, but rewarding nonetheless.
Humility is a key to unlocking certain types of knowledge, and conversely, pride is a barrier to such knowledge.
My relationship with the God in whom I believe is based on a master and servant relationship, and I must, if I am to obtain knowledge of my God, and attain the status of His adapted son as promised, cast out pride as best I can, and humble myself before a far greater being than I, by whose grace I can grow in knowledge and potential.
You raised so many points, and I thank you for that, even though I have not responded to them all.
My contention is that knowledge and its acquisition is both objective and subjective, and we must at some point humble ourselves and put our trust in others if we are to benefit from their experiences, experiences that we may never be able to share, but no less real for all that.
This question of humility flies in the face of your obvious pride in your quest for knowledge, a quest that appears to have been at times quite laborious, but rewarding nonetheless.
Humility is a key to unlocking certain types of knowledge, and conversely, pride is a barrier to such knowledge.
My relationship with the God in whom I believe is based on a master and servant relationship, and I must, if I am to obtain knowledge of my God, and attain the status of His adapted son as promised, cast out pride as best I can, and humble myself before a far greater being than I, by whose grace I can grow in knowledge and potential.
You raised so many points, and I thank you for that, even though I have not responded to them all.
. . . Ages? I hope he saved it in a word document. I didn't get to see it. The last I 'heard' from him was . . .
"Mibs - First of all allow me to express my admiration for the way you present your credo, as always, concise and logical, and ethereal to a certain extent, exemplifying what appears to me, to be your opinion on what it is to be fully human.
But I would like to ask you. Is everything, in your opinion, explainable, (or simply awaiting an explanation), or do you accept the existence of mysteries that cannot be explained?
If so, could you give an example or two?"
. . . to which my last two posts were in response.
Oddly enough his more previous posts are still there. I appears that only his most recent posts have disappeared. If as some suspect he was banned for over posting he must have been very busy. I�ve made submissions recently that consisted of up to five consecutive posts in rapid succession. Hmmm . . . After taking another look at that thread it appears I may be a victim of mistaken identity. Excuse me while I take leave to go and defend my good name ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ <o/�\o>
"Mibs - First of all allow me to express my admiration for the way you present your credo, as always, concise and logical, and ethereal to a certain extent, exemplifying what appears to me, to be your opinion on what it is to be fully human.
But I would like to ask you. Is everything, in your opinion, explainable, (or simply awaiting an explanation), or do you accept the existence of mysteries that cannot be explained?
If so, could you give an example or two?"
. . . to which my last two posts were in response.
Oddly enough his more previous posts are still there. I appears that only his most recent posts have disappeared. If as some suspect he was banned for over posting he must have been very busy. I�ve made submissions recently that consisted of up to five consecutive posts in rapid succession. Hmmm . . . After taking another look at that thread it appears I may be a victim of mistaken identity. Excuse me while I take leave to go and defend my good name ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ <o/�\o>
Years ago I heard it said (don't know how true it is) that all the elements of the universe can be found in some measure on earth and that actually in human beings are all the elements of the universe too in some scaled down measure. This led me to believe that everything comes from the same matter and that within us all is the essence of the universe - so in that sense the universe is all around us and yet also within us. I wondered then if perhaps the concept of God and our relationship to him stems from this internal knowledge that not only are we a part of something greater and more perfect than us, but also that greatness and perfection is a potential within us all. What do others think?
Well I think that we all have enormous potential to exceed our present state, but very few, if any, use this potential to the full.
Perfection is only a concept that we can try to imagine, and strive after, but never fully achieve no matter how close we get to it.
All matter is composed of protons and electrons, including us, so, yes, in that sense we are also composed of the same stuff as the rest of the universe, but as to the exact elements, I'm afraid I don't know, but I imagine so.
I do believe that the essence of God is in all of us, some would call this, a still small voice, but it must get drowned out in many cases by the noise of modern living.
Perfection is only a concept that we can try to imagine, and strive after, but never fully achieve no matter how close we get to it.
All matter is composed of protons and electrons, including us, so, yes, in that sense we are also composed of the same stuff as the rest of the universe, but as to the exact elements, I'm afraid I don't know, but I imagine so.
I do believe that the essence of God is in all of us, some would call this, a still small voice, but it must get drowned out in many cases by the noise of modern living.
Theland . . . along with your previously deleted posts. Do you have any knowledge or would you care to speculate on what happened?
I have no immediate response to yours but when I find time I will consider what you have submitted carefully.
. . . copys / pastes / saves Theland into notepad . . .
. . . and Kroozer too . . .
I have no immediate response to yours but when I find time I will consider what you have submitted carefully.
. . . copys / pastes / saves Theland into notepad . . .
. . . and Kroozer too . . .
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