It was Jean Paul Satre that said

[Booldawg]

'Hell is other people' - does he have a point? Most our problems in life are caused by the actions or attitudes of other people towards us, rather than Hell being a physical place.

[China Doll]

A little but it is up to us how much we let other people irritate us in some ways.

However in some circumstances other people can be complete ********* of the highest order and have a very nasty effect on others lives.

Also by that logic do you mean hell is on earth right now then? (Since there's a lot of other people down here and quite a lot of them annoy the pants off me!)

[~max~]

I think it is the atheist's version of hell, yes. Since we can only truly know our own selves, anything alien (ie: someone else) will always be strange, different, and hereby something scary. Racism is only the social manifestation of this.

[naomi24]

Racism doesn't come into this, and neither does irritation or annoyance. Satre was right. I think this applies to people we are obliged to encounter in everyday life. Bullying bosses, abusive partners - it's people like that who can truly make our everyday existence into a living hell.

[China Doll]

Yeah but you still have to let them in first Naomi. We do have some control over the other people in our lives... although admittedly not always a great deal; (hence why my mother refuses to dye her hair despite the fact it'd take about ten years off her!)

[naomi24]

Yes, China, fine with people we can take or leave, but if we desperately need a job, and we have such a boss, we don't have much control there, do we?

How are you feeling? Better I hope.

[~max~]

I see racism as a fear of the unknown, at a social level, Naomi. Sartre's philosopy is relevant to the social level as well as to the individual level.

[China Doll]

Completely and utterly miserable... so moving swiftly on... There are ways of dealiing with abusive bosses though these days, I don't think things are as bad as they used to be when people like that got away with murder are they? (Well except where I used to work obviously!)

[naomi24]

Oh, China. I wish I could help. Can I?

Things in the workplace are better now, I think - thank goodness.

[China Doll]

Shakes head No, but the offer is sweet, thank you.

[naomi24]

OK, but if you want to talk, I'll listen. You can always send me a PM on Sports.

Got to go to bed now - sleep tight, China. x

[China Doll]

G'night, sweet dreams!


(Sorry Booldawg)

[ludwig]

He does have a point, but other people provide the heaven as well as the hell. Look back on the moments or periods in your life when you were truly happiest and it's likely there's another person involved there somewhere. It's a case of other people - can't live with 'em can't live without 'em.

[Octavius]

Well put Ludwig - as usual.

I don�t mean to sound obstreperous but it seems a little infantile to simply blame everyone else for your hellish predicament. In this respect I agree with China.

Granted it can happen, but sometimes you have to take personal responsibility. Whether that be by letting someone �in�, letting them affect you in such a manner, or whether you are affected by psychological/antisocial issues which may or may not be the fault of someone else.

Hell may well be a state of mind, but blaming other people for being there is rather counter-productive.

[naomi24]

Yes, I agree. If we're in a situation where we have a choice, then it is up to us to remedy that situation. It's easy to make excuses, but we can't blame everyone else for our ills. The problem with obnoxious people only arises when we really don't have a choice and we are obliged to suffer them.

[Octavius]

In the context of the play he was right, since the characters were torturing each other by recollecting each others sins, vices and unpleasant memories.

But in reality I think it is an oversimplification. As I said before, I believe hell is whatever you perceive your eternal torment to be.

[naomi24]

Can you guess what mine is right now?

[Booldawg]

We can walk away from a nightmare boss and get another job if push comes to shove. We can leave abusive partners, regardless of how difficult it seems at times. When the 'other people' are charachters such as Hitler, Mugabwe, Idi Amin et al then guess choice is much harder to make and even harder to carry out change.

[Octavius]

I dunno Naomi, does it involve karaoke and wine but no corkscrew?

Again in context Booldawg, hell is not other people as such, it is more likely how they affect your existence. In your examples, we would associate the predicament of oppressed peoples such as WW2 concentration camp victims, the Tibetans, and the nations of Zimbabwe, Uganda and so many others as �hell on earth�.

The hell is created by evil monsters of the highest order. For example I wouldn�t cal Pol Pot hell, just an evil bar-steward who, hopefully, is in his own hell.

[naomi24]

Nah .... but you're right on the rest of it.

[Theland]

I was absolutely smashed last night!
This morning, I am in hell!