The Quakers

[JockSporran]

They see God as the spirit of the universe (you are free to interpret that in whatever way you wish), not as some big beardie in the sky ready to smite us with a thunderbolt for being naughty.

They see Jesus as a cool dude, a sound bloke, not God in human form.

They don't tell you what you mustn't do. You can smoke, drink, eat red meat or whatever.

They have a liberal attitude to contraception and sexual matters.

They believe in evolution and science.

They support world peace, equality and an end to poverty.

Sounds like the religion for me (atheism didn't work for me). Should I give them a try?

[Octavius]

I am very good at maths actually. I can count up to 21 using all my didgets.

[naomi24]

That odd one always comes in handy. :o)

[Rosetta]

I am drawn to The Quaker's beliefs, either that or the Sally Army because I love their practical approach to religion and helping those in need.
I would, however, have difficulty with the pacifist with Quakerism. Does anyone know if a contrary belief is accepted?

[JockSporran]

Rosetta - I have always believed up to now that war is sometimes justified. If we didn't stand up to Hitler, Europe would be a Nazi superpower today. I have asked Quaker friends about this and was advised that sometimes it may be necessary to fight, but that it must always be avoided if possible. Peace is the ideal.

The Sally Army? No thanks. They believe that Jesus is God and they forbid drinking alcohol. But I love seeing their bands play in the street at Christmas. All part of the traditional Christmas that I remember and love.

[JockSporran]

In A Pickle - help me out here. I am thinking of becoming a Quaker but I suppose I'm not a committed pacifist. I repeat what I said earlier: if we didn't stand up to Hitler, Europe would be a Nazi superpower today and there wouldn't be any Quakers because the Nazis would have eliminated them all. Do you understand that?

[naomi24]

I know several Quakers - and they are all pacifists.

I agree with you, Jock. Pacifism is a wonderful ideal - but in the real world, it's an impractical one - unless, of course the whole world takes the pacifist stance - and that is never going to happen.

I hope you don't mind me asking, but why do you feel the need to be a part of any organised religion? Isn't being 'you', with your own individual thoughts and beliefs, enough?

[Rosetta]

Many of the beliefs of Quakers are laudable but I have to agree with Jock and Naomi on pacifism. As a last resort sometimes it is necessary to fight and in all sincerity I couldn't join a faith where this was a central tenet. Yes, that would be hypocritical.

Sometimes, Naomi, being an individualist isn't enough. Organised religion, for all it's faults, can provide a feeling of fellowship.

[naomi24]

Rosetta, yes, I know that's true. I wondered whether that is what Jock is seeking - or whether he feels the need to pursue the teaching that comes with organised religion. Perhaps he wants a combination of both.

[JockSporran]

Fellowship is important. It is good to have an intellectual conversation with like-minded people, and it is good to feel part of the atmosphere, like being at a rock concert if you know what I mean. No man is an island.

[naomi24]

That's understandable. So bearing in mind the pacifism aspect of Quakerism, Jock, what do you think you will do?

[naomi24]

In a Pickle, thank you for that. I understand what you're saying, but I asked Jock whether he felt he could become a Quaker simply because, from my understanding, Quakerism cannot, under any circumstances, be reconciled with war, and Jock clearly believes, as I do, that Hitler had to be fought. As far as I can tell, it is, as you say, the least organised of religions, and it is in my experience, one of the most gentle.

[naomi24]

No need to apologise, In A Pickle. I was simply explaining my reasons for asking Jock whether or not he would choose Quakerism. I'm genuinely interested in his thoughts on the subject. This is quite a complex issue for anyone who is searching for the way that is right for him. Your input has added greatly to the debate. There's nothing more valuable than information coming from someone who has experience. Thank you - and I hope, if Jock's thread develops, you will continue to give us the benefit of your knowledge.

[JockSporran]

I will continue to go to Quaker meetings for now and keep an open mind. I will continue to ask them questions. I will have to think on about the pacifist bit. It is a bit of a poser.

[naomi24]

Jock, please let me know how you get on - and what you decide. I hope you find what you're looking for. Good luck. x