What's Beyond The Big and The Small?

[Theland1]

We generally judge the entirety of the universe by the insignificant yardstick of our own experiences, and dare to speculate with our imagination what lies beneath and beyond our personal spectrum of existence.
We arrogantly and confidently assert that God does not exist, because we haven't come across Him today at the supermarket.
But, beyond our spectrum, where mathematics break down, and quantum logic turns our own logic inside out and upside down, can we categorically deny the possibility of a Creator God?
I think not.

[Booldawg]

On the contrary; us human beings have the whole thing sewn up *rolls eyes at the atheists*

[Theland1]

Stars for taking the time and trouble ......

[ll_billym]

Yes there may be a God somewhere where humans will never see him.

There may also be a ten headed pink hippo playing solitaire somewhere where humans will never see him.

I give both the same probability and you Theland cannot either prove or disprove either to me.

Furthermore seeing as you have admitted that you have no evidence of God are you willing to admit that he may not exist?

[WaldoMcFroog]

Not categorically, no.

It's a bit like asking whether we can categorically declare 'Theland will never write a question which is halfway sensible'; it seems extremely unlikely based on the evidence we have, but it's always possible and if we see proof we'll change our minds.

[jake-the-peg]

Do you categorically deny the possibility of lepricauns Theland.

Have you looked under every toadstool in Ireland?

No because the whole concept is just silly.

If I claimed there was a plumber called Bill who walked on water, raised the dead and who I could talk to if I shut my eyes and concentrated they'd lock me up!

But If it's not a plumber called Bill but a carpenter called Jesus - well that's different!

[Octavius]

If Bill told you to go out and do harm to others, then yes they probably would lock you up. But just believing in such a thing is not a crime and does not imply insanity, if that is what you are inferring.

[Octavius]

You could say the same of 'feelings'. Feelings are not supposed to be logical.

[naomi24]

Theland, but you confidently and arrogantly insist that God does exist - even though you haven't come across him today in the supermarket. No one can categorically deny or confirm his existence, so it must work both ways.

[jake-the-peg]

So Octavious - If someone came and told you they'd just met a plumber and seen him walk on water you're telling me that you'd believe them.

You'd think it was more likely that they were right and this had happened and you wouldn't think it more likely that they were mentally ill or tricked?

Such stories have more potency when they happened hundreds of years ago and millions of others believe them.

Go to a Maternity hospital and look for a virgin and see how far you get - yet the same nurses who will escort yopu to the psychiactric wing will go and sing carols later that same evening!

The human mind has an amazing ability to compartmentalise and rationalise the most ridiculous ideas in a religous context

[commencer27]

Some people try argue and to make a strong emphasis of its own thought and probably more on his/her personal practice. I think there is no point to argue whether God exists or not it is a useless time lost, just like spending time on arguing whether the wind exist or not. You can't see the wind, but you fill it. So it is in this case, you can't see God, until a certain time, when I hope you'll remember everything heard about God and really hope you won't regret. The human being, who has a relationship with God, does not need to prove in different way that He exists, he/ she needs just to leave his/hers life and be a living example for others. And I would allow myself to tell that the person, which has a healthy relationship with God, is very very different in all aspects from others, and many other would really want to be like him/her.

[naomi24]

You're not Keyplus in disguise, are you Commencer?

[Octavius]

Jake that is not what I was saying at all. I was emphasising that logic is individual. Its personal. It is logical for me to love my guitars for many reasons, which might be illogical to someone else.

If someone said to me that they believed that, then I would believe that they believed it. My opinion of that belief is neither her nor there, providing the person didn�t try to harm me on the basis of their belief in Bill the plumber.

[jake-the-peg]

That's the point.

Logic is NOT individual.

Socrates is a man

All Men are Mortal

Therefore Socrates is mortal

That is logic as true to you as it is to me and as true as it was 3000 years ago. There is no individuality to it, it's not a matter of opinion.

If you don't like it you can't just say "it's not my logic" and it will not be so

[Octavius]

Ah right, touch�. So I walked right into your logic lecture when I was just relating a person�s right to freedom of belief. So would anyone that had a belief that was at odds with your own be marched off to the sanatorium then?

[ll_billym]

Nobody has yet argued against the right to believe.

Theland has tried to apply some logic in his question. In fact even used the word, twice.

What I and others have tried to do is show that if you apply Thelands own logic to the problem you actually come up with the answer that you cannot prove the existance of God.

Theland etc. etc. should steer well clear of the sea of logic I think and stay in the dry land of unquestioning belief where they are safe.

[Davethedog]

Everyone has the right to believe what they want. Of that belief is ingrained then you won�t shift it will you?

Theists have a deep faith that they will reach a life ever after, they also believe that they can do anything including murder and providing they confess before god they sinned that O.K then, not all Theists believe it but many do.

They use this faith and belief as the crutch that supports their moral and intellectual judgement through their lives, why they chose one way and not another has never been made clear to me, but I do no that Theists who disagree with each other, because there can be no discourse to convince either side, will resort to violence. Sooner or later.

Atheists on the other had are convinced there is no god, they have no more evidence for this theory than the Theists do for theirs, but this doesn�t stop the Theists from trying to impart their will on the Atheists.

Atheists manage in the most part manage to run their lives without the promise of jam tomorrow and will never be judged by god. If however they �confess� at death they will be forgiven all their sins or will burn in hell forever or go to purgatory or will be reborn as a Frog or some such.

However a bit of rather compelling evidence is this some years ago God spoke to everyone in the middle east. A virgin here a burning bush there a prophet here, you get the picture, however about 2000 years ago god stopped speaking to anyone, apart from Americans, point being why?

[naomi24]

Ah, Dave. The million pound question. It's been asked before, and since you've asked the audience, there's no need to phone a friend. The answer, as far as I recall, is you shouldn't ask the question. God works in mysterious ways, and you must never ever question his motives for doing anything - which means he has a perfect get-out clause every time.

Maybe, after doing the same old thing for thousands of years, he just got bored playing games with people's minds, eh?

[Davethedog]

Well naomi - without wishing to invite Theist rhetoric - Its to mysterious for me.

[naomi24]

Well that proves it works then, Dave, because that's just the way it's supposed to be. ;o)