Who is God and what do you know about him,

[keyplus90]

Over the past year or so since I know, we have gone over accepting or rejecting the existence of God so many times and of course altogether this is not a new topic. But are we really sure what we are accepting or rejecting as God.

Being a Muslim I believe the concept of God is very simple and according to Quran it has been described in only four little sentences.

1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

4. And there is none like unto Him.

Now I do not expect anyone to believe in this definition of God. But my question is that when you refuse God, then what definition or characteristic do you know him by?

Surely even to deny something or someone you must first of all know everything about that subject.

[WaldoMcFroog]

You accept Allah on the basis of what must necessarily be incomplete knowledge; why should we be held up to a different standard?

Incidentally, remind me of the extent of your investigations into Astaru..?

[Mr Veritas]

I believed(to a certain extent)in God until I did active service in WW2.
I shall not go into details,but I was with an Army unit that arrived at a Concentration Camp not long after it was relieved.
If you had seen that I doubt if you could believe in God after it,only in the cruelty of Human Beings.
I rejoice in the day when Human Beings die off,or are wiped out,and the world resumes it's sanity.

[Davethedog]

I refuse god and I know him as nothing.

What you are describing, to me, is the christian creationist argument. OK so theres not a god so there must have been something that created all this.

My thought is that we were not created, there is no entity no divine being we are a chance a happenstance, that may or not be duplicated elsewhere.

God is the answer by some people to a question that has no answer.

A an aside and I mean no disrespect asking this. I note that when you name Allah or even Jesus you put (PBUH) I know what it means, but I note that you didn't use it when putting the question. I am just curious why you didn't in this case. If this is in anyway disrespectful please ignore it.

[keyplus90]

Zac � Can you tell me if diwedfjfmdfvero exists?

Luna � Apart from what I have read and I believe, I can see the sign of the existence of God, or you just bring me any one thing that just appeared itself without any back ground about its creation, even a single cell.

Waldo � my friend, the one and only full of knowledge, can you on the basis of your unlimited knowledge say as a fact that God does not exist. However if you could, then you know and I do as well that you would be the first person in the history of mankind to have done so. I will try reading about Astaru once I will move to Scandinavian countries. Until then I will take your words about it.

Mr Veritas � When people see those kind of things then the affect is usually different for ever individual. Few start believing in God and few stop. However I always see things like this as the temporary factor of this life and death being the gateway to hereafter. You may refuse accepting hereafter (because we can�t see it) but refusal of the gateway (death) is impossible. As far as killing is concerned then its done by the human so you can not blame God for that. But still I respect what you believe in as I always do.

[keyplus90]

Dave � I do not mind anything people ask. And there is no disrespect. (peace be upon him) is usually used for human, although in written form it is mainly used for prophets but there is no restriction even using for anyone. Muslims greet each other on daily basis even saying exactly the same words. In my question I talked about Allah or God. Although there are attributes you can add after Allah or God too but are not used as regularly because God does not need these things.

[WaldoMcFroog]

So - despite implying in your question that one must know everything about a god before one rejects it - in practice, you actually reject lots of gods without knowing everything about them, just like the rest of us.

As for proving for a fact that a god does not exist, I have never once suggested such a thing was even possible, and have on many occasions stated the impossibility of doing so.

If you are going to argue, can you at least do it on the basis of what's actually said?

[jake-the-peg]

Keyplus I believe your definition is insufficient.

There is nothing there to seperate him from some sort of suffiently extra-Universal being.

Nothing to indicate that your god has a personal interest in humanity or even conciousness. Indeed the Universe itself holds for your definition.

So what then is the key difference between ideas of God and a sufficiently advanced alien?

Mostly the concept of a personal God. One that knows each member of humanity, cares for them and is capable in some way of preserving some sort of part of them (the soul) after their death.

This I think is they key notion of God in all religions and is what I reject.

Incidently it's that specific notion of a personal God that Einstein rejected too so I can't take all the credit!

[keyplus90]

Waldo � I never said that you suggested anything like that. As for rejecting other�s gods. I have no objection if people want to carry on believing, but I do know everything about them, As a fact it�s the people from within those other god believers who are moving away from those gods. If someone wants to believe in a monkey as his/her god then after afew years he may have to find another one once this one is dead. You just imagine a deadgod. Anyway as I spoke about monkey then even Hindu scriptures talk about only one God who is eternal.

Jake � That is not my definition, and I would not be able to change that as at the time of Muhammad (pbuh) people ask him to change such and such and then they will believe in Quran, and he said that it was not for him to change it, so to this date Quran is same word to word. Personal interest in humanity, and other bits you are talking about are covered in very much detail in Quran. So help yourself if you do wish so.

[terambulan]

Mirages are traditionally accepted to appear in the desert.

[Lonnie]

I don't believe anyone knows God, Has any living or dead person any proof that they've conversed with God?,

The belief in God has to be blind belief, believers have to believe what they have read or been told, no actual physical proof.

[naomi24]

To deny something or someone you must first of all know everything about that subject.

Since the same literature is available to everyone, well-read atheists know a lot more about God than most of his followers - and that's precisely why they don't believe in him.

[beso]

God, Allah, Ywhe, Jehovah. All the same rubbish philosophy.

A myth created by arrogant people to presume political and moral superiority and justify the opression of others.

[rov1200]

If there is a god he must exist outside the universe. When the big bang happened he must have been an observer. This means there must be an entity outside the universe which controlled everything.

[keyplus90]

naomi24
Fri 09/01/09
18:24
Since the same literature is available to everyone, well-read atheists know a lot more about God than most of his followers - and that's precisely why they don't believe in him.

Since all the same literature �����.So do all the atheist believe in spirits as you do Naomi or you are still a trainee atheist?

[naomi24]

Err .... not quite with you Keyplus. I don't know where you got the idea that I'm in training, and since atheism isn't a religion or a belief system, I can't speak for all of atheists - but God? Spirits? No connection whatsoever.