If God hadn't promised the faithful an afterlife ........

[naomi24]

Would you still believe in him ........ and, if so, what purpose would it serve?

[rojash]

Well, the Inuit have not promised me anything, but I still believe in them - not sure that it serves a purpose though.

[emma_llew]

Yes, but there's actual evidence of the Inuit existing, unlike God.

[naomi24]

Well, this is very interesting. This question has been here for 24 hours, but where are all the faithful rallying to God's cause? I can only assume they're not so faithful at all - they're simply afraid of dying, and without the promise of eternal life God is redundant. Poor old God. And he thought he had friends! Just hope he has a good pension plan.

[Octavius]

You are assuming that the only purpose in this life is to achieve the gift</> of eternal life.

I don�t know about your life, but my life has other purposes which are very un-selfish. Eternal life is a reward that may or may not be given. If it happens, grand. If it doesn't, at least I know I have lived this life to the fullest.

[Lonnie]

I think, for no afterlife/heaven to ever have been mentioned by God, wouldn't have had much bearing on the way belivers of all religions behave, assuming that there was no doubt about the existance of God.

God is the creator, the master, 'do as I tell you, or get punished', believers would still war in his name, do good in his name etc, because thats what they think he wants.

With no promise of a reward after death, there's no expectancy, although, some religious leaders may invent one,

[keyplus90]

I saw this question yesterday, and did notice that no one was answering. I automatically thought that no one was willing to waste his/her time on an illogical question.

Because I do not do everything what I believe to be good only because I am afraid of being punished in the hereafter but still a belief in the existence of hereafter leads me towards what really is good in this life. I may do things in this life where no human should ever be able to see or catch me, should it be stealing, cheating, robbing, raping, hating people because of race or religion, telling lies, or doing anything in so much isolation where no one ever be able to know as no detective or machine can tell what is in your heart.

Only because I believed in the fact that a human may not be able to catch me but what about the one who knows about every thing. Now you call it a fear, respect, discipline or whatever but that made me do or stopped me from doing the things that are all good. So what is wrong with that? I believe there would be more people who would be behaving badly if there is no concept of hereafter as there are so many things that can only be questioned once we are there.

And that is the reason I said that this question is illogical even in the worldly sense or you give me example of a single country where there are no laws and punishments at all. And hereafter is all about that. Believe in it or not, even that is you choice.

[Octavius]

Keyplus, I was just waiting for the bear-baiting and ritualistic bemoaning of the thickos versus the intelligentsia to ensue.

Clearly an insightful premonition judging by the posts above. They appear not to even need answers to do it.

[naomi24]

If you didn't bother yesterday because the question was illogical, I wonder why you bothered today, Keyplus.

I believe there would be more people who would be behaving badly if there is no concept of hereafter as there are so many things that can only be questioned once we are there. Thank you. You've illuminated the point I was making. You are kept on the straight and narrow, not by your confidence in your own ethics and abilities, and in your own sense of right and wrong, but by fear of punishment in the hereafter.

And at the risk of incurring the ever-present wrath of the faithful, I have to ask just how believers think atheists manage to live fulfilling, respectable and law-abiding lives?

[Octavius]

I am sure most do in a peaceful way, perhaps the evolution of the Christian teaching through our history as lead us from being warring tribes tearing each other apart, to a united peoples who have evolved into the nice people we are today defending our nation from other forces who might change us.

However, there are, like in all religions, those atheists who demonstrate the levels of extremism that transcend any moral, law abiding and respectable treatment of their counterparts. Some religionists and some atheists can just be downright nasty towards the other, or just treat them with contempt and look down upon their lack of insight or knowledge. I don�t like to generalise. Not all religionists are thick, and not all atheists are as clever as they think they are.

[Annna]

The promise of an afterlife is not much of a carrot. But the promise of an answer 'This is what it is all about, this is why you are and this is your purpose' now that is. I want to know its not all random and pointless.

[keyplus90]

Octavius � I just started reading The God Delusion. Its going to take me time to finish it as I got other things to do. But so far what I could gather from it is that the only intelligent people are scientists, and then among them those scientists who are atheists. I thought I had heard that somewhere before.

[naomi24]

Annna, I'm not sure what you mean by pointless. The point of living is surely not to await death and the dubious pleasures, or otherwise, that death may hold for us?

[rojash]

I'd like to know that it's not all random and pointless, too. Unfortunately, all the evidence points to the fact that it is just that.

[mibn2cweus]

rojash, Perhaps you owe a debt of gratitude and thanks to those who contributed to your ability to indulge in and provided you with the means to express your ambivalence.

If however it was your own contribution to the peace and freedom we enjoy for which you have not received the thanks and recognition you deserve . . . I see your point.

[rojash]

mibn2cweus, I don't understand your reply at all.

I believe that it is all pointless and random - nothing ambivalent about that. The fact that it would be nice to be able to delude myself that there was more to it, doesn't imply any ambivalence.

As to your second paragraph - it doesn't seem to have any relevance at all to my posting.

[mibn2cweus]

rojash, I am delighted to know that at the very least you are not ambivalent. The point I was trying to make is that nothing is random.

Finding nothing but randomness in ones perceptual field only points to a failure to grasp underlying cause and effect relationships. The desire to find oneself worthy of existence (the cause) is what provides one with the will to live a meaningful and just life (the effect). Having achieved some measure of success in responsibly integrating oneself with the reality one finds oneself in provides meaning to and an appreciation for ones existence, without which the universe would indeed be pointless.

Chalking it all up to a divine and randomly motivated creator and believing that life is nothing more than an intermediate phase in eternity robs the believer of their birthright, to find meaning and to pursue the human potential to realise joy in this our one and only opportunity to do so.

As our knowledge of the universe and our place within it grows, we are provided with a previously inconceivable opportunity to give to existence an awareness and appreciation for and of itself. A universe devoid of such beings with the desire and ability to realise in some small way this potential would be pointless, however the choice not to live in a pointless universe is not random by virtue of the attribute of choice.

If I have again failed to make my point then on your behalf I concede this has all been pointless albiet not random. Perhaps if not you than someone else might disagree.

[Octavius]

Kind of lenghty explanation of my first post innit?

[terambulan]

A waste of life & resources if you only live to be re-incarnated.

It's like praying for aid to unfortunates instead of emptying your pockets.